[Misc] Rise in holocaust denial.

[Hastings gull]

That is a terribly ignorant post.

You cannot possibly compare the Holocaust with “the Jewish propaganda machine” and “move on”


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On a slightly different note, the Germans have been showing the Holocaust series made in the late 1970s - older folk will remember it - and it was fascinating to hear that 2 versions were made. We saw the American version, but apparently the version shown at the time on german TV missed out the final bit, when the SS officer was asked to explain about how he felt about his guilt. I suppose back then the German public were not quite ready for such inconvenient soul-searching

 

[Baker lite]

With the far Left on the rise, senior figures In the Labour Party clearly having issues with Jewish people, it’s not surprising that there are still Holocaust deniers in this country.
Very interesting hour on LBC this afternoon addressing this issue.


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[StonehamPark]

I guess this post is implying that everyone in the UK is turning into Nazis?

All this poll says is that 1 in 20 people are either conspiracy theorists or of a certain faith. So if there is anything to be concerned about it should be applied in the right direction and not spreading scaremongering propaganda on an invented premise based on a poll.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

CBBC Newsround has a page with true stories of children from the Holocaust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/beta/canvas/holocaust-stories

 

[Winker]

This thread probaly needs derailing.....here goes then....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA8Uav7EPlQ

On a historical point, it wasn't the Italians who invaded Crete but the Germans, but hey ho.... I loved the young ones!

I went to school in the 60's-70's and WW2 was not on the curriculum, possibly because our parents were involved in the conflict and it was still a sore point in the collective memory. I remember a period of German/Jew jokes which would not go down too well today.

I knew about the holocaust from reading books (we did that then) and watching TV series like 'The World at War' (which my parents wouldn't watch). In the cubs and scouts we got dragged off to church on Remembrance Sunday but it didn't mean much to us at the time. It seems that it is only recently that remembrance/holocaust has become a big thing. Did they do wreath laying at the Goldstone Ground?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

On a historical point, it wasn't the Italians who invaded Crete but the Germans, but hey ho.... I loved the young ones!

I went to school in the 60's-70's and WW2 was not on the curriculum, possibly because our parents were involved in the conflict and it was still a sore point in the collective memory. I remember a period of German/Jew jokes which would not go down too well today.

I knew about the holocaust from reading books (we did that then) and watching TV series like 'The World at War' (which my parents wouldn't watch). In the cubs and scouts we got dragged off to church on Remembrance Sunday but it didn't mean much to us at the time. It seems that it is only recently that remembrance/holocaust has become a big thing. Did they do wreath laying at the Goldstone Ground?

The world at war....yes, the mountains of bodies....that was when I decided that facism and racism (which certainly appealed to me when I was 13) were disgusting. And had to be opposed. Always.

I agree with your narrative. Agressive Remembrance is a phenomenon of the last 20 years, along with agressive 'no surrender'ing around St George's day. I find them both distasteful. But I do like the way Remembrance is headline these days. It will be interesting to see whether this starts to fade now the centenary of the start and the finish of WW1 have come and gone. It will be the 80th anniversary of the start of WW2 this year, though, and a good time I suspect for the nation to reacquaint itself with the architecture of genocidfe.

 

[dangull]

This country always likes to remember dates when they were the good guys, but forgetting times when they were not. The British Empire was not all about bringing civilisation to the natives of third world countries.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The world at war....yes, the mountains of bodies....that was when I decided that facism and racism (which certainly appealed to me when I was 13) were disgusting. And had to be opposed. Always.

I agree with your narrative. Agressive Remembrance is a phenomenon of the last 20 years, along with agressive 'no surrender'ing around St George's day. I find them both distasteful. But I do like the way Remembrance is headline these days. It will be interesting to see whether this starts to fade now the centenary of the start and the finish of WW1 have come and gone. It will be the 80th anniversary of the start of WW2 this year, though, and a good time I suspect for the nation to reacquaint itself with the architecture of genocidfe.

I think Remembrance took on more meaning again after the Falklands conflict and the first Iraq war. In the 60s & 70s, there didn't seem to be much need for it, more of the 'war was then and this is now' attitude.
When our troops started dying in more conflicts, then the younger ones took over.

 

[Bakero]

This country always likes to remember dates when they were the good guys, but forgetting times when they were not. The British Empire was not all about bringing civilisation to the natives of third world countries.

Undoubtedly true, as it is for other countries. Not sure what relevance it has to the thread though.

 

[symyjym]

This country always likes to remember dates when they were the good guys, but forgetting times when they were not. The British Empire was not all about bringing civilisation to the natives of third world countries.

I don't have a problem with the British Empire. That was a time of ignorance and discovery, and competition with the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Islamic Empires, navigating the unknown world and civilisations on wooded ships. I am more concerned about our more recent history, during our time, and not acknowledging our bad behaviour in the 21st century tbh.

 

[The Clamp]

This country always likes to remember dates when they were the good guys, but forgetting times when they were not. The British Empire was not all about bringing civilisation to the natives of third world countries.

The holocaust isn’t about patting anyone on the back.

 

[Bakero]

I don't have a problem with the British Empire. That was a time of ignorance and discovery, and competition with the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Islamic Empires, navigating the unknown world and civilisations on wooded ships. I am more concerned about our more recent history, during our time, and not acknowledging our bad behaviour in the 21st century tbh.

The British empire went on a bit beyond the days of galleons on the high seas.

 

[dangull]

I don't have a problem with the British Empire. That was a time of ignorance and discovery, and competition with the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Islamic Empires, navigating the unknown world and civilisations on wooded ships. I am more concerned about our more recent history, during our time, and not acknowledging our bad behaviour in the 21st century tbh.

Ok, lets talk about our next door neighbour Ireland which had a population of 8M people when the potato famine started. The British insisted they exported the good produce and did nothing to help their colony. Millions died or were forced to emigrate to America, or if they did a petty crime were sent to the out door prison Australia.

Even today the population of Ireland is 5M and we all know the problems of British imperial rule in the North of the island which exist to this day. Just one example.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Ok, lets talk about our next door neighbour Ireland which had a population of 8M people when the potato famine started. The British insisted they exported the good produce and did nothing to help their colony. Millions died or were forced to emigrate to America, or if they did a petty crime were sent to the out door prison Australia.

Even today the population of Ireland is 5M and we all know the problems of British imperial rule in the North of the island which exist to this day. Just one example.

You are aware that the six northern counties had a vote? That vote was to stay with the UK, and not get independence with the south. It wasn't and isn't imperial rule.

 

[dangull]

You are aware that the six northern counties had a vote? That vote was to stay with the UK, and not get independence with the south. It wasn't and isn't imperial rule.

You are aware if there was a vote on the island of Ireland for Irish unification, then that will almost certainly win?

 

[Bwian]

Jewish scousers must feel really put upon

You really are a nasty c*nt.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

To some people of a certain age it seems incredible that the holocaust can be denied. But ignorance is always the enemy.

For example, last year the Polish government felt it necessary to pass laws banning suggestions that Poland had any part in the mass murders of Jews after Fox News (yes, I know) referred to 'Polish death camps' rather than 'Nazi death camps in Poland', repeating Barack Obama's 2012 gaffe along the same lines. If educated people like him can get things mixed up then it's clear that there is still work to be done in keeping the facts straight.

For the record, I've been to the site of the Warsaw ghetto. Relatives of mine lived in Warsaw and other parts of Poland during the Nazi occupation. I've been to Auschwitz. It happened.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You are aware if there was a vote on the island of Ireland for Irish unification, then that will almost certainly win?

The Good Friday Agreement had 90% approval.

 

[Nixonator]

Never met a single person who questions the legitimacy of it, and I know a fair amount over 20.

 

[pastafarian]

Never met a single person who questions the legitimacy of it, and I know a fair amount over 20.

Me Either,im sure its rare for most of us, but

The Anti Defamation League did a large study in 100 countries not so long ago about anti-semitism in general but also holocaust denial.

http://global100.adl.org/public/ADL-Global-100-Executive-Summary.pdf

Whilst the vast majority in Western Europe are aware of the holocaust and denial of the facts is historically low. The Middle East, Africa and Asia has some low awareness levels of the holocaust anyway and some very high levels of denial compared to us.
62% in the middle east and North Africa were not even aware of the holocaust.
And only 8% in the Middle East and North Africa had heard of it and thought the historical account of it was accurate.

It cant be too much of a leap of faith to understand those that come here from these areas will bring their beliefs with them. I wonder if that is replicated in the survey that is representative of British society along with the rise of anti semitism in left wing circles of UK nationals? As ever, education is key even for new arrivals to Western Europe along with the idiots that should know better who have been born and bred here

That lesson must not be forgotten.

If you ever come across someone denying the holocaust or the extent of its horrors, point them in the direction of the documentary Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps made by George Stevens and John Ford( yes him) whilst they were serving in the war, which was commissioned by the US government and was used at the Nurnberg trials. It is truly horrific, it is not the edited footage you mostly see on TV and in films to spare the audience, its raw and unedited and as shocking today as it must have been then. I think Amazon had it on prime some time ago. Really not for the feint hearted though.
Everyone should watch it once though……it would soon send holocaust denial to the dustbin.