[News] RIP Archie Battersbee

[Herr Tubthumper]

Christian Concern do some amazing work defending the beliefs of many Christians in this country.

Wikipedia suggests the exact opposite.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don’t really know the ins and outs of the case but the thread just reminded me that something as random as a different doctor coming on shift and taking a different view contributed to saving my life. The previous one wanted to give up on me. All a bit personal I suppose. We are going to ask questions for as long as we can if ever in that position for each other again. We can’t blame Archie’s parents for doing the same.

Fair enough…and good that you’re still here and able to have this discussion!

 

[Lenny Rider]

Can someone go in an ambulance whilst on life support?

Good point, somehow I doubt it, having been in ICU and seen the set up.

 

[GT49er]

The NHS's duty of care is rightly to the patient, not anyone else. That is the crux of this tragic and dreadful situation.

Yes I get that - but in terms of care they were just about to switch off his life support system resulting in his death. None of us have died so we don't know what it's like, but he's been uncoonscious since April - was his death actually a better experience in his hospital bed? - would it have been any worse in the ambulance, on the trolley going to the ambulance, or even for a few minutes in the hospice if he got there?

OK, yes, I get the duty of care thing, but this somehow seems closer to the letter of the law than the spirit of it. Layman's view, I know.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Interesting read: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/holli...l-archies-army-spread-the-purple-wave.124942/

 

[AstroSloth]

Just this - and let's not have any stupid arguments about whatever religion his lawyers practice, or what was said in anger and frustration. Just RIP.


One thing I really can't understand is why they wouldn't let him go to a hospice for his final hours/days, apparantly because the ambulance journey would be detrimental to his health. So what difference would that have made (other than maybe giving a tiny bit of consolation to his parents)?

Because hospices are for people who are approaching the end of their life, not corpses that are being kept warm.

 

[AstroSloth]

“His mother, who had been at his bedside almost constantly ever since, believes it resulted from him choking while taking part in a viral social media challenge” - The Guardian.

There was no viral challenge for a start. Second people taking part in challenges tend to record themselves doing the challenge, he didn't.

He was also depressed and had practiced tying the ligature round his neck and attaching it to his sisters door the night before. He committed suicide.

 

[GT49er]

Because hospices are for people who are approaching the end of their life, not corpses that are being kept warm.

Unnecessary. 'Corpses that are being kept warm' - show a little respect, eh?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting read: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/holli...l-archies-army-spread-the-purple-wave.124942/

I’m not sure what to make of this. One thing I can say is that not only is this a very sorry tale….the more I read about it the weirder it gets.

 

[AstroSloth]

Christian Concern do some amazing work defending the beliefs of many Christians in this country. Have a look at some of the cases they take on and you would be amazed at the persecution Christians face in this country when compared to other faiths and non believers.

Archie and his family weren't Christian. The organisation offered financial help because they had an agenda they wanted to push. They wanted to try and get the legal definition of alive changed to someone with a heartbeat so they can claim fetuses are alive and attempt to get abortions banned.

This is also why they went with the internet challenge story as if they told the truth that Archie had committed suicide then he would be a sinner.

 

[AstroSloth]

OK, I'll accept that, and the Tweet from a doctor quoted further down the thread.


I still wonder though, given his condition and that he's died so soon after the judgement anyway, whether that would have mattered.

He didn't die after the judgement. He died months ago.

His body was being kept warm whilst it decomposed in the hospital room. His organs were suffering necrosis and his brain stem was completely gone.

 

[AstroSloth]

Some of the comments on here are from people who have never been in such a position themselves. I have been through it twice (comas) and first time around doctors predicted twice that I would die and asked my wife to come in to say goodbye and then said I would live but be a vegetable. This was during Covid when my wife wasn’t allowed in the hospital and she was pretty shocked when she received a telephone call from me from the ward with me asking what was going on. I was also misdiagnosed after the stroke by the doctors in the hospital down south which was corrected up here in Liverpool last Autumn after the second episode. The truth is doctors don’t always know so before making sweeping statements about Archie’s parents people should stop and think and always question.

But when he's suffered brain death, his brain stem rotted away and his organs suffering necrosis, you should probably trust the doctors when they say he's gone

 

[jcdenton08]

Interesting read: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/holli...l-archies-army-spread-the-purple-wave.124942/

Yes, this is what is widely known online. Very sad all round.

I think everyone should read this as a matter of importance if they are to share opinions on this sad event.

 

[AstroSloth]

Unnecessary. 'Corpses that are being kept warm' - show a little respect, eh?

Well that's what was happening. He'd died long ago and any semblance of a dignified death was taken from him.

His mother was selling t-shirts with his face on for £15 a pop at the vigil last night instead of staying by his bed.

 

[drew]

Because I would be speculating which is not really appropriate at this stage. The aspect I found disturbing is where the report said that the brain stem had been pushed into the spine, but then I am not a medical person and there may well be a reasonable explanation. I think it best to wait for the post-mortem.

I don't if its pertinent to this case but 'coning' is when swelling in the skull forces the brain down through where the spinal chord is.

 

[spongy]

It's an absolute disgrace to be frank, this poor kid has been dead for a while now, when you read the reality of what was going on with him, it's horrific. I won't go into detail unless asked, but Archie has been dead for a long time, allowing this to go on has been awful.

Exactly this.

It's a horrible thing to must have to go through, as a father of 2 young girls it'd be my worst nightmare but I hope as an intelligent person I'd take the advice of professionals who know what they're doing regards this situation and do the right thing.
Ive now read that some Christian fund has got involved.

IMO science and religion should not be involved together.

When it comes to faith it's one or the other, and a courtroom is not the place for it to be decided

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Just this - and let's not have any stupid arguments about whatever religion his lawyers practice, or what was said in anger and frustration. Just RIP.


One thing I really can't understand is why they wouldn't let him go to a hospice for his final hours/days, apparantly because the ambulance journey would be detrimental to his health. So what difference would that have made (other than maybe giving a tiny bit of consolation to his parents)?

My daughter, who is a doctor, said the trauma of actually moving him could well have killed him before getting to the hospice.

And as for the “Christian” group who were supporting the parents, I don’t understand on what basis they might have been doing it. #givingchristiansabadname

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Christian Concern do some amazing work defending the beliefs of many Christians in this country. Have a look at some of the cases they take on and you would be amazed at the persecution Christians face in this country when compared to other faiths and non believers.

Firstly, I seriously disagree with the persecuted Christians in this country thing.

But secondly, and more importantly, I fail to see any Christian aspect on which to “fight” this. It is not euthanasia, which I could understand but not necessarily agree with. It is about the artificial prolonging of someone’s life and, if anything, going against God’s will.

This is a genuine question. On what basis were they doing it?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A smiling mother and a Tory MP photo opp. This was sick (and I don't mean that in the slang context)

[tweet]1555677002392342530[/tweet]






I know what it's like to have a relative where the life support was turned off. My half brother died aged 21 from encephalitis.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sorry but I blame his Mum and Dad for dragging this out enabled by some deeply unpleasant religious fruitcakes with too much money.

This.

The parents might have been a bit more carful over his internet access, too: "Died with a ligature round his neck when an online challenge went wrong". FFS.

Edit: Post 47 suggests this was a lie, and that the lad committed suicide. A bit of truth in the media might be nice. I got my version of the story from the relentless reporting on radio 5.

The mother sounds like a real piece of work too.

The only saving grace in all this was the boy has been dead for weeks and didn't have to suffer the horror show his mother and her anti abortion supporters put on.