Richard Dawkins to arrest Pope Benedict.!!!!!

[bhaexpress]

Why? Surely that is something granted to diplomats from other countries, not given to some priest that thinks he is god on earth?

The Vatican is a a state in it's own right, that's why.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

The Vatican is a a state in it's own right, that's why.

But not one that provides the 'leaders' diplomatic immunity it would seem.

 

[pork pie]

The Vatican is a a state in it's own right, that's why.

Is it a real one with a deligation at the UN, or just some fairytale one? Maybe if it is a seperate state, someone will declare war on the scum!

 

[bhaexpress]

But not one that provides the 'leaders' diplomatic immunity it would seem.

That's debatable, there are actually worse things that diplomats get away with, take the late PWPC Yvone Fletcher, gunned down by gunfire from inside the Lybian Embassy for example.

I am pretty sure that anybody who tried to lay hands on the Pope or his popemobile would be pounced on by some rather large Policepersons.

 

[Don Quixote]

Is it a real one with a deligation at the UN, or just some fairytale one? Maybe if it is a seperate state, someone will declare war on the scum!

It is a separate state you idiot. It is a country. If you studied history it has always been a separate country for a very long time. Why would anyone declare war on it? Stupidest thing i have ever heard.

 

[NMH]

.....................................
Do unto others as they do unto you ring any bells ?

Do you mean "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
That really does have a completely different meaning, so no, your quote doesn't ring any bells actually.

 

[bhaexpress]

Is it a real one with a deligation at the UN, or just some fairytale one? Maybe if it is a seperate state, someone will declare war on the scum!

By 'scum' who are you referring to ? Most Catholics are perfectly law abiding. People are people and you don't have to be religious to be a sinner. I'd like to see the Catholic Church face up to the issue rather than deny it. I think that eventually somebody in the US will start a class action against the Catholic Church and when that happens the floodgate will open .... Maybe. You have to remember that the sanctity of the confessional is treated in the same way as lawyer client privelledge. Whist a Priest or Lawyer may know of some evil deed legally they cannot say so or take any action that could jeapordise the other party.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's a pretty far-fetched definition. You have made several posts on this subject and you've used Catholic as quite clearly meaning Roman Catholic. But for this one post, you want to make it different.

I didn't make it different, I put it into a 1930's context.

As that's what it's in.

You read it as truth perhaps, I read it as more propaganda from a vile and nasty human who would say anything to try and get people to follow him.

And if you told Protestants I know they were Catholic, you would have some very cross proddies on your hand.

The Arch Bishop of Canterbury wouldn't be offended if I referred to him as a catholic.

They were butchered because they were Polish/French/Czech etc -not because they were Catholic.

In those countries thousands of clergy were killed. Far more than any other nations.

In a place like Poland Priests were leaders within the communities so they were targeted.

I'm not some fanatical anti-Catholic but I don't think you minimise the part the church played in forming Hitler's views (there's a longs-standing belief on the part of some Catholics that the JHews were responsible for Christ's death) and the support that was shown to Hitler by large parts of the church.

That argument doesn't make sense when you look at the Jews in Italy during this period and the fact that the non Jewish Italians actually helped hide or aid in escape the majority of jews that lived in Italy prior to the war.

Hitler's views werent formed by the RC church, they were formed by the Lutheran Church and Martin Luther's anti-semetic stance.

Martin Luther (1483-1546), a German Reformation leader, had a significant influence on German antisemitism by his harsh anti-Jewish statements and writings. In the twentieth century these were used by the Nazis in their antisemitic propaganda.

It's worth noting early on when he was still a r/catholic he actually expressed concern for their plight.

I agree that Hitler's views swung wildly between being anti-religious and being Christian but that's the nature of being a megalomaniac I suppose. Anyone who's ever read Mein Kampf can scarcely recognise him as being rational.

Absolutely.

He had no time for a "God" not when he thought he was a god.

 

[Vankleek Hill Seagull]

The Vatican is a a state in it's own right, that's why.

Correct, but the Vatican is not a member state of the United Nations, so technically the Pope as head of state does not qualify for diplomatic immunity. He is afforded this out of courtesy by the host country, but they don't have to.

 

[bhaexpress]

Do you mean "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
That really does have a completely different meaning, so no, your quote doesn't ring any bells actually.

You should spend less time on here and more time reading your Bible. That quote I gave you depends on which version of the Bible you read. Granted it's be a long time since I did but by the same token I gave up reading other fairy tales when I left infants school.

 

[bhaexpress]

Correct, but the Vatican is not a member state of the United Nations, so technically the Pope as head of state does not qualify for diplomatic immunity. He is afforded this out of courtesy by the host country, but they don't have to.

True but could you see any (Western certainly) power revoking that ?

 

[DJ Leon]

My only part in this discussion is to address the imbalances I see within alot of peoples statements.

What exactly are these imbalances? Do we have to say a nice thing about catholic priests every time we mention the fact that some of them have abused children?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The fact is that the Catholic Church hold sway over millions of people throughout the world. The fact that they made no attempt to do anything makes the notion of being 'a Good Christian' rather fatuous. The church is not a country and as such should be apolitical although we all know that it is anything but. As I say, the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for and that is why it gets attacked. One thing that just about all religions hold in contempt is the sacrament of confession, a complete joke to any rational human being.

Do unto others as they do unto you ring any bells ?

Catholics arent like Muslims.

You can't command them all to take up arms or any such thing against others.

What would you have had the church order them to do?

Millions and millions of them died fighting against the Nazis in Europe so it's not like the Pope's people did nothing in the fight.

And the vatican is apolitical. It has no say in any other nations affairs.

When the Pope speaks, he speaks to R/Catholics, not other people.


Confession is a joke like patient/doctor/client/lawyer confidentiality?

Anything like that can be construed as being a joke when it with holds information that could be vital.

I probably tend to agree with that, i'd have no issues with priests being able to pass on valuable information.

But it might be opening up a big ole can of worms then if others who use this confidentiality clause are asked to rescind that right too.

 

[NMH]

I think the endgame of this whole public outcry, is playing out in self-fulfillment.
In other words, the 'punishment' for the Catholic hierarchy and their repeated crimes, is to roll them up like a carpet for all to see the filthy deceptions and cover-ups they've brushed underneath for centuries.

Their church has created a situation that leads to/encourages child molesting. Their priests cannot have natural sexual relations that allow them to live their own manhood, yet are surrounded by the sexually curious and naive attired in dresses.
It's not excusable or understandable by any stretch of imagination - but for the predator-in-a-dog-collar it's 'made in heaven'.
I wonder how many gays began on their path to sexual discovery, thinking homosexuality was fine for them because of their priest's grooming and gratification?

 

[beorhthelm]

Catholics arent like Muslims.

You can't command them all to take up arms or any such thing against others.

And the vatican is apolitical. It has no say in any other nations affairs.

apoliticial? no but seriously, you are fighting a one man battle here, defending the indefensible actions of the Catholic church in Nazi europe (acknowledged by the church so why do you deny it?) and the institutional inaction they have taken on abuse.

a major difference between muslims and christians is that latter have always followd centralised church authorities, while Islam has no such structure and its down to the individual local Imams to interpret the Koran as they see fit, which leads to a fractured and non-uniform following. as a consequence there are far more extremist views, as they have no authority to tell them they are wrong. rather like the evangelicals that have broken from the traditional churches and spread a rather extreme version of christianity.

 

[NMH]

edited

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What exactly are these imbalances? Do we have to say a nice thing about catholic priests every time we mention the fact that some of them have abused children?

Well nothing positive is ever said about them.

That would seem to be a rather large and one sided imbalance i'd say.

 

[Don Quixote]

I think the endgame of this whole public outcry, is playing out in self-fulfillment.
In other words, the 'punishment' for the Catholic hierarchy and their repeated crimes, is to roll them up like a carpet for all to see the filthy deceptions and cover-ups they've brushed underneath for centuries.

Their church has created a situation that leads to/encourages child molesting. Their priests cannot have natural sexual relations that allow them to live their own manhood, yet are surrounded by the sexually curious and naive attired in dresses.
It's not excusable or understandable by any stretch of imagination - but for the predator-in-a-dog-collar it's 'made in heaven'.
I wonder how many gays began on their path to sexual discovery, thinking homosexuality was fine for them because of their priest's grooming and gratification?

You act as though every priest is a paedophile. They are not it is a small minority.

 

[Gwylan]

That argument doesn't make sense when you look at the Jews in Italy during this period and the fact that the non Jewish Italians actually helped hide or aid in escape the majority of jews that lived in Italy prior to the war.

...


Hitler's views werent formed by the RC church, they were formed by the Lutheran Church and Martin Luther's anti-semetic stance.

If you think that the majority of Italians were not anti-semitic, you really should read some Primo Levi. Look at the opening chapter of The Periodic Table to see how deeply ingrained anti-semitism was deeply ingrained in Italy - not specifically Catholic I grant you, but are you going to tell me that Mussolini was voted in by the few percent of Protestants in Italy?

And Hitler's views weren't shaped by Lutherism. He was a Catholic: his mother was a devout Catholic and, as I said, he went to Catholic school and took communion in the Catholic church.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

no but seriously, you are fighting a one man battle here, defending the indefensible actions of the Catholic church in Nazi europe (acknowledged by the church so why do you deny it?) and the institutional inaction they have taken on abuse.

Actions. Inactions

They all have cause and effect.

Everything you have stated above i can relate to another large organisation, say like the UK governent.

The UK's participation in the Versaille Treaty is what lead to the Nazi party being born and World War 2. - check

Chamberlain's inactivity and appeasement of Hitler lead to him running roughshod over chunks of europe.

As a form of child abuse the UK government took thousands of children and sent them to Australia even though alot were not orphans. A great many were abused within government institutions.

Would you like to defend the indefensible actions of your nation?


And perhaps tell me whose actions/inactions had a larger impact.

just as a matter of perspective.