[News] Reparations

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why on earth are we apologising for something that happened before even our great-grandfathers were alive? What is the flipping point? In 50 years time do we expect the 2050 generation of Germans to start apologising for WW1?

The problem is that as soon as you apologise for something you're are infering some level of guilt, which then equals 'claims'. No one alive today is guilty in any way for the appalling practices of 150+ years ago. Also no one alive today can claim to be effected because a distant ancester was a slave. Where do you stop? I want an apology and compo from Italy because some distant ancestor was killed by the Romans in an invasion?

So again, what is the point?

We aren't.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Sure but we still would have done if other countries were in the same position and did not use slaves and have an advantage over us.

The Slave trade was abhorrent and reparations ideas are understandable but not realistic, in fact, they’d be tokenism and impossible to implement fairly whilst causing anger and resent amongst the sort of people who vote Trump.

What is really needed is more equality of opportunity for the African diaspora displaced by slavery. More acknowledge of the evils of slavery and less hero worshipping of those that abolished it. This will take investment and political will but it’s good to see Kamala Harris talking about giving black American men the same opportunities as their white conterparts.

Still I Rise​

BY MAYA ANGELOU

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
’Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries?

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
’Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin’ in my own backyard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I’ll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history’s shame
I rise
Up from a past that’s rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise..

Sure but we still would have done if other countries were in the same position and did not use slaves and have an advantage over us.

The Slave trade was abhorrent and reparations ideas are understandable but not realistic, in fact, they’d be tokenism and impossible to implement fairly whilst causing anger and resent amongst the sort of people who vote Trump.

What is really needed is more equality of opportunity for the African diaspora displaced by slavery. More acknowledge of the evils of slavery and less hero worshipping of those that abolished it. This will take investment and political will but it’s good to see Kamala Harris talking about giving black American men the same opportunities as their white conterparts.

Still I Rise​

BY MAYA ANGELOU

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
’Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries?

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
’Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin’ in my own backyard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I’ll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history’s shame
I rise
Up from a past that’s rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

I agree that looking forward and practical action is much more important than tokenism. The point that what I was trying to make is that slave trade had major economic and social impacts on the countries involved that continue to this day and I think it is important that we recognise this. An acceptance of responsibility for it is clearly something we owe the victims but is important for us to move forward as a country.

 

[ROSM]

We aren't.

Didn't the govt apologise previously? I thought Blair did in 97. Which is fine in my view.

Reparations are more complex. I would much rather we fixed forward and partnered on aid / climate change and help shape a better future

 

[el punal]

That's where I am. An apology and reparations is the moral thing to do but the practicalities are the stumbling block.

How about a windfall tax on the super rich with provable links to the slave trade? Richard Drax, with his Barbadian plantation, would be a good start. The Duke of Westminster's 10 billion pound fortune surely has some shady origins too- not to mention the fact he managed to dodge inheritance tax on it.

Aside, from the financial reparations, I'd also send the aristos to do some volunteer work on infrastructure projects; trench digging and such like. 25 years hard labour should suffice. Meanwhile, their land and assets could be distributed to the nation as reparation for their crimes against the working people of Britain. Who's with me?

Right on brother! Good luck with finding someone who’s with you cos whatever admirable suggestions you might have is the proverbial pie in the sky.

 

[GT49er]

Didn't the govt apologise previously? I thought Blair did in 97. Which is fine in my view.

Reparations are more complex. I would much rather we fixed forward and partnered on aid / climate change and help shape a better future

I believe that's called overseas aid?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Didn't the govt apologise previously? I thought Blair did in 97. Which is fine in my view.

Reparations are more complex. I would much rather we fixed forward and partnered on aid / climate change and help shape a better future

Indeed.

So any discussion about why we are or are not apologizing again is worthy of my short shrift, which I delivered, tersely

Agree also with your second point.

 

[Giraffe]

I've tracked my family back to the early 18th century. Some were forced into the work house and worked like slaves. Can I claim a slice please?

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Perhaps even worse is that some people (including teachers) do appear to believe that "we" established the slave trade in the first place.

I'm actually quite proud (not that any credit is due to me, of course!) that since Roman times, slavery has been in theory illegal in this country, and since the Black Death has been in practice impossible as well. And that Britain was the leading nation in abolishing the slave trade, even between countries where we had no jurisdiction.

I remember on "Who do you think you are", and I think it was Alex Scott, where they discovered that one of her several-greats-grandfathers was a slave. Poor man. Then he was granted his freedom. Yippee, good for him. Then he bought a couple of slaves. Oops. Does Alex Scott the descendant of a slave owner have to pay compensation to Alex Scott the descendant of a slave?

Ok, I think my wording should have been that we scaled it up to a previously unforeseen level and turned it into a national business model. However your example shows how impossible it would be to assess compensation on anything like an individual level.

 

[fly high]

I've tracked my family back to the early 18th century. Some were forced into the work house and worked like slaves. Can I claim a slice please?

Me too.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I've tracked my family back to the early 18th century. Some were forced into the work house and worked like slaves.

Little surprise you ended up as moderator on here then. How do we break the cycle?

 

[Doonhamer7]

If we do we should also ask Germany to pay the majority of Europe a lot of compensation for all the issues they caused over the WW1 & 2

Germany did pay and that worked out well, NOT. The Treaty of Versailles where Germany was crippled by debt thus leading to rise of national socialist party and WW2

 

[maltaseagull]

Missing the point a little, our country and Economy benefitted off slavery and should give back. Even today people are direct benefactors from slave plantations like this piece of filth:

:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...set-to-gain-3m-from-sale-of-former-plantation

How far back are you willing to go?
There are do many nations that when powerful enslaved the conquered.
Why just blame Britain?
Or do you have an agenda?

 

[maltaseagull]

Missing the point a little, our country and Economy benefitted off slavery and should give back. Even today people are direct benefactors from slave plantations like this piece of filth:

:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...set-to-gain-3m-from-sale-of-former-plantation

You are ignoring not missing my point.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

How far back are you willing to go?
There are do many nations that when powerful enslaved the conquered.
Why just blame Britain?
Or do you have an agenda?

This is very much a case of white slavers bad and black slavers meh, if we are doing it, then lets do it properly and have African nations (among others) pay up

 

[bluenitsuj]

Let's have a referendum and if it's voted that we pay reparations then all those voting in favour then get to pay, via an astronomical rise ij their council tax. It's the only fair way.

 

[ROSM]

I believe that's called overseas aid?

And we all know how angsty some people get about that!

 

[GT49er]

And we all know how angsty some people get about that!

Not really the issue here. Just that we are already making payments for future developments, etc.

 

[Jackthelad]

Everyone needs to cough up. Come on.

 

[Bakero]

Right on brother! Good luck with finding someone who’s with you cos whatever admirable suggestions you might have is the proverbial pie in the sky.

The cap-dothing, forelock-tugging meekness of the British public does somewhat scupper my plans for revolution.

 

[chip]

Maybe if some of the nations concerned got a better deal in world trade this might not come up as an issue. When I was a student I was friends with someone from Malawi who was studying something like forrestry. Most of the wood used in baseball bats (or something like that) at that time came from Milawi but they could only export raw material rather than finished bats because of tariffs. The USA wanted to keep the added value. It also stopped us and France subsidising former colonies in the Carribean as that breached WTO rules. Now most bananas come from South America.