Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.

[BadFish]

Meanwhile instead of debating you will drop hints about a poster being banned again eh.
Of course you can be flippant and shove up the laughing smillie, because at the end of the day issues that affect us......will not affect you on the other side of the planet.

A very good point, Immigration has no effect on me at all, I should have learnt that when I moved here from the UK.

Lucky we also have none of those nasty Muslims, so that doesn't effect me either.

Still thanks for reminding me what does and doesn't affect me, if you didn't do it every couple of days I might forget and think that I have friends and family in the UK who suffer because of the hysterical nonsense that you and the right wing press present as truth. Or, of course, that the right wing press over here take their lead from the UK press and spread the same kind of hateful inaccurate nonsense. Murdoch and those who believe his propaganda have a lot to answer for in my opinion. So if it is all the same to you I will continue to challenge such propaganda when I see it (with flippant comments if i choose).

It is little wonder that both our countries have such a delusional view of the 'Islamic problem" when we don't even know how many muslims their are. is this possibly because the right wing press choose to find an Islamic angle in so many of the stories they print (and you post)
http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ns-think-muslim-population-nine-times-greater


Feel free to ignore my posts if you think my opinion is compromised by my location.

 

[Hastings gull]

A very good point, Immigration has no effect on me at all, I should have learnt that when I moved here from the UK.

Lucky we also have none of those nasty Muslims, so that doesn't effect me either.

Still thanks for reminding me what does and doesn't affect me, if you didn't do it every couple of days I might forget and think that I have friends and family in the UK who suffer because of the hysterical nonsense that you and the right wing press present as truth. Or, of course, that the right wing press over here take their lead from the UK press and spread the same kind of hateful inaccurate nonsense. Murdoch and those who believe his propaganda have a lot to answer for in my opinion. So if it is all the same to you I will continue to challenge such propaganda when I see it (with flippant comments if i choose).

It is little wonder that both our countries have such a delusional view of the 'Islamic problem" when we don't even know how many muslims their are. is this possibly because the right wing press choose to find an Islamic angle in so many of the stories they print (and you post)
http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ns-think-muslim-population-nine-times-greater


Feel free to ignore my posts if you think my opinion is compromised by my location.

It is a forum and everyone's views are important, irrespective. You are entitled to post as much as anyone, and distance should ideally not play a part, though I hope you could appreciate that when you do live so far away are unlikely to live with the possibly future explosive consequences of massive and relatively unchecked immigration, it can seem as somewhat provocative. If you posted about your home town and your revulsion at, say, the local council's decisions, and then several on here replied as to what a benign and sensible council it was, I am sure you would also think along the lines of "what do they know about it, what has it got to do with them" etc etc. That is not to say that such a mindset is right, just that it is understandable.

I am sure that the "right wing press" sensationalises issues with regard to muslims, and is guilty of "mud slinging" to an extent -but of course if there was no mud, then it could not be slung. You are obviously "doing your bit" to help immigrants, and it could be that you simply don't want to read inconvenient news -should it all be swept under the carpet and anyone who raises the issue of problems with immigration is then labelled a "racist" -that lovely word ! The apparently increasing number of sexual abuse cases here in the UK, doubtless to an extent having gone unchecked due to the fear of the authorities being labelled as "racist" (there it is again) demonstrates what can happen when behaviour is not challenged in the press. Perhaps we could agree that a "happy medium" is needed?

 

[BadFish]

It is a forum and everyone's views are important, irrespective. You are entitled to post as much as anyone, and distance should ideally not play a part, though I hope you could appreciate that when you do live so far away are unlikely to live with the possibly future explosive consequences of massive and relatively unchecked immigration, it can seem as somewhat provocative. If you posted about your home town and your revulsion at, say, the local council's decisions, and then several on here replied as to what a benign and sensible council it was, I am sure you would also think along the lines of "what do they know about it, what has it got to do with them" etc etc. That is not to say that such a mindset is right, just that it is understandable.

I am sure that the "right wing press" sensationalises issues with regard to muslims, and is guilty of "mud slinging" to an extent -but of course if there was no mud, then it could not be slung. You are obviously "doing your bit" to help immigrants, and it could be that you simply don't want to read inconvenient news -should it all be swept under the carpet and anyone who raises the issue of problems with immigration is then labelled a "racist" -that lovely word ! The apparently increasing number of sexual abuse cases here in the UK, doubtless to an extent having gone unchecked due to the fear of the authorities being labelled as "racist" (there it is again) demonstrates what can happen when behaviour is not challenged in the press. Perhaps we could agree that a "happy medium" is needed?

A happy medium is indeed what is needed, I agree. Or maybe some balanced and truthful reporting.

I have not commented or offered an opinion on the issue of unchecked immigration for the exact reasons you state. Neither have i labelled someone a racist merely for believing in controlled migration.

The points I have made on this thread are about the demonising of Muslims, on others I have also made similar points and made comments about asylum seekers. I believe that both of these issues are global problems.

While I am at it I would also like to point out that I am not suggesting for one moment that there is not a huge global problem with Islamic extremism. Of course there is, I just think that it is reported in a highly imbalanced way and feel that it is provocative that a select few posters choose to use NSC to share such spin.

Having said all that I do understand that my sarcastic, smart arse and stirring style of posting can (and should) rub people up the wrong way. I will apologise for that, my stirring and my part in the binfestery of this thread. I really should not get involved, but sometimes when you have just got up it is irresistible.

 

[Megazone]

Having said all that I do understand that my sarcastic, smart arse and stirring style of posting can (and should) rub people up the wrong way. I will apologise for that, my stirring and my part in the binfestery of this thread. I really should not get involved, but sometimes when you have just got up it is irresistible.

Stop drinking coffee before sleep. You wake up a lot fresher.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

A happy medium is indeed what is needed, I agree. Or maybe some balanced and truthful reporting.

I have not commented or offered an opinion on the issue of unchecked immigration for the exact reasons you state. Neither have i labelled someone a racist merely for believing in controlled migration.

The points I have made on this thread are about the demonising of Muslims, on others I have also made similar points and made comments about asylum seekers. I believe that both of these issues are global problems.

While I am at it I would also like to point out that I am not suggesting for one moment that there is not a huge global problem with Islamic extremism. Of course there is, I just think that it is reported in a highly imbalanced way and feel that it is provocative that a select few posters choose to use NSC to share such spin.

Having said all that I do understand that my sarcastic, smart arse and stirring style of posting can (and should) rub people up the wrong way. I will apologise for that, my stirring and my part in the binfestery of this thread. I really should not get involved, but sometimes when you have just got up it is irresistible.

If there wasn't a problem with certain aspects of Islam in the UK we wouldn't be talking about it, that's for sure. It's not just about extremes, it also about hard line parts of this religion and the complete culture change that is and has gone on within towns and cities. I think having lived in a town where a large proportion of people followed this religion, I am and was in a good position to see what it is really like in numbers. Where not talking about one or two people that might be your neighbours, I'm talking where you have over 20 mosques in the town and litterally everything in that area of town you live in is focused on the one religion, from the schools, the shops to the leaflets that come through your door, as a non believer it makes you feel out of place, and sometimes felt Iike I was living in a completely different country. For me there are good reasons to be wary about this religion, I am very wary about where it is going, what's plans it has and most importantly how much this country is giving over to it, because our country keeps avoiding the real questions. Our polticians avoid the real questions because they don't have the experience of living in the real parts, like everything else they are out of touch.

 

[Hastings gull]

A happy medium is indeed what is needed, I agree. Or maybe some balanced and truthful reporting.

I have not commented or offered an opinion on the issue of unchecked immigration for the exact reasons you state. Neither have i labelled someone a racist merely for believing in controlled migration.

The points I have made on this thread are about the demonising of Muslims, on others I have also made similar points and made comments about asylum seekers. I believe that both of these issues are global problems.

While I am at it I would also like to point out that I am not suggesting for one moment that there is not a huge global problem with Islamic extremism. Of course there is, I just think that it is reported in a highly imbalanced way and feel that it is provocative that a select few posters choose to use NSC to share such spin.

Having said all that I do understand that my sarcastic, smart arse and stirring style of posting can (and should) rub people up the wrong way. I will apologise for that, my stirring and my part in the binfestery of this thread. I really should not get involved, but sometimes when you have just got up it is irresistible.

Thank you for your reply. I did not mean to imply that you had labelled anyone by the way -just using it as an example. It is interesting that you feel the reporting is unbalanced, - if you disagree, then it is likely one would feel that the reporting was less than accuratethers presumably react differently. You did not need to write the last para, by the way - however, it does seem rather contradictory. There is no point in apologising if you feel that your comments should rub others up the wrong way!

Yes, muslims should not be demonised, but certain sections of that community most definitely should.! We are of course walking a tightrope here -understandable heat-of-the moment outpourings of anger after eg beheadings inevitably lead to perhaps rather more extreme statements than we would normally utter, which of course simply fans the fire. This is of course what the fanatics want -they know they are in a minority, and so they can gain willing recruits, as tit for tat actions polarise opinions.

It is clear that the refugee crisis is something that humanity has not faced to such a degree for ages, if at all. I do fear for the future if we continue to let in huge numbers of unskilled refugees from countries where the mindset is very different to ours. Of course there are shining examples of folk who have integrated well and contributed massively, but there are also many and by all accounts growing numbers of those determined not to embrace our way of life and at the very least lead separate lives within our society. I think you were implying from an earlier post that Oz should take in more -very noble sentiments, but do you really think that letting in hundreds of thousands, as we do, will all end happily. Am I right in thinking that Oz has by and large assimilated refugees well over the last 100 years -at least that is the impression that I have - but this may be due to the fact that immigration has been kept low

 

[Nibble]

Meanwhile instead of debating you will drop hints about a poster being banned again eh.
Of course you can be flippant and shove up the laughing smillie, because at the end of the day issues that affect us......will not affect you on the other side of the planet.

Whereas Sompting is overrun with radicalised Muslims.

Always exactly the same idiots trashing threads with the added annoyance of The Truth's latest childish Horsefeathers in the form of Megadrone.

 

[Megazone]

Always exactly the same idiots trashing threads with the added annoyance of The Truth's latest childish Horsefeathers in the form of Megadrone.

Until this post. I'd made 2 whole posts on this thread.

Sorry for the annoyance.

Anyways, were't you claiming I was Brighton Fella last or was that Hybrid x?

either way. You need help.

 

[Nibble]

Talking of learning didn't I say your not smart enough to put project as I'll point it out and show you up as a fool? So here goes. Im not wading through pages to re-read a post that you claim I missed the point but have been happy to argue the toss over my point over the X amount of pages. If its that important you go play show and tell. As its only an excuse as you are being ran rings around I will leave your glaring failure there.

If you are going to ceaselessly tell others they are not smart could you please employ the correct use of YOU'RE as opposed to continuously getting it wrong. Thank you.

As you were.

 

[BadFish]

Thank you for your reply. I did not mean to imply that you had labelled anyone by the way -just using it as an example. It is interesting that you feel the reporting is unbalanced, - if you disagree, then it is likely one would feel that the reporting was less than accuratethers presumably react differently. You did not need to write the last para, by the way - however, it does seem rather contradictory. There is no point in apologising if you feel that your comments should rub others up the wrong way!

Yes, muslims should not be demonised, but certain sections of that community most definitely should.! We are of course walking a tightrope here -understandable heat-of-the moment outpourings of anger after eg beheadings inevitably lead to perhaps rather more extreme statements than we would normally utter, which of course simply fans the fire. This is of course what the fanatics want -they know they are in a minority, and so they can gain willing recruits, as tit for tat actions polarise opinions.

It is clear that the refugee crisis is something that humanity has not faced to such a degree for ages, if at all. I do fear for the future if we continue to let in huge numbers of unskilled refugees from countries where the mindset is very different to ours. Of course there are shining examples of folk who have integrated well and contributed massively, but there are also many and by all accounts growing numbers of those determined not to embrace our way of life and at the very least lead separate lives within our society. I think you were implying from an earlier post that Oz should take in more -very noble sentiments, but do you really think that letting in hundreds of thousands, as we do, will all end happily. Am I right in thinking that Oz has by and large assimilated refugees well over the last 100 years -at least that is the impression that I have - but this may be due to the fact that immigration has been kept low

I am not sure you do let in hundreds of thousands, somewhere around 20 -25,000 a year seems to be the figure. 126,000 currently in the UK (0.23% of the population). http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

Quite a nice graphic here show who is hosting the worlds refugees (all 50 Million of them). If you look at the countries that are taking most of them you can't help but feel that something must be done.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/as-w...-australia-goes-backwards-20140620-3ajqj.html

My experience of refugees is that they show no determination to avoid embracing our way of live, they are merely just thanking their lucky stars that they are away from the shit they left behind.

 

[Hastings gull]

I am not sure you do let in hundreds of thousands, somewhere around 20 -25,000 a year seems to be the figure. 126,000 currently in the UK (0.23% of the population). http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

Quite a nice graphic here show who is hosting the worlds refugees (all 50 Million of them). If you look at the countries that are taking most of them you can't help but feel that something must be done.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/as-w...-australia-goes-backwards-20140620-3ajqj.html

My experience of refugees is that they show no determination to avoid embracing our way of live, they are merely just thanking their lucky stars that they are away from the shit they left behind.

I think that I might have been partly responsible for the misleading nomenclature. I was actually referring to immigration in general, which could of course include refugees. Your figure of 25,000 is very low and I suspect that this might be due to a narrow definition. Economic migrants might well count themselves as refugees, of course. Government figures put current immigration at 298,000, which would include those from within the EU but does not include those who have entered the country illegally. But if you add this on year on year, and given Bashilsdir's experience of the realities of life in towns that have changed beyond recognition, then it is reasonable to say that life in a small country such as the UK will be challenging, to put it mildly. There will be demands made on the NHS, given that many immigrants come from areas with poor healthcare, and schools are also being asked to extend to take in extra numbers, though this is not all down to immigration, to be fair.
I accept that your experience is that genuine refugees wish to embrace life in OZ, and I don't doubt that this is also valid in the UK, but the numbers here are substantially higher and I think it is fair to say that most folk would not have the same degree of faith that immigrants from non EU states en masse are so willing to embrace our way of life.

 

[BadFish]

I think that I might have been partly responsible for the misleading nomenclature. I was actually referring to immigration in general, which could of course include refugees. Your figure of 25,000 is very low and I suspect that this might be due to a narrow definition. Economic migrants might well count themselves as refugees, of course. Government figures put current immigration at 298,000, which would include those from within the EU but does not include those who have entered the country illegally. But if you add this on year on year, and given Bashilsdir's experience of the realities of life in towns that have changed beyond recognition, then it is reasonable to say that life in a small country such as the UK will be challenging, to put it mildly. There will be demands made on the NHS, given that many immigrants come from areas with poor healthcare, and schools are also being asked to extend to take in extra numbers, though this is not all down to immigration, to be fair.
I accept that your experience is that genuine refugees wish to embrace life in OZ, and I don't doubt that this is also valid in the UK, but the numbers here are substantially higher and I think it is fair to say that most folk would not have the same degree of faith that immigrants from non EU states en masse are so willing to embrace our way of life.

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. Although I am not sure that I agree with your view of immigration here. I understand that their are several worst case scenarios out there and there are clearly issues in Tower Hamlets, Luton and places like Bradford. As i have said there are immigrants that are refusing to integrate in society, However are we really going to judge immigration as a whole by its worst extremities? Just because there are issues in certain areas that doesn't mean that as a whole immigrants are not integrating. This is what I mean about the media highlighting the issues and ignoring those places where people are getting on.

My overall feeling about this though is that there are more devastating factors effecting the well being of the British public than immigrants. Until the government start governing for the people instead of their cronies they will continue to be happy with the kind of divide and conquer politics that blight this issue.

As I understand it, the high level of immigration to the UK is because of long standing reciprocal agreements between the UK and parts of the former colonies and of course membership of the EU (although EU immigrants have provided the UK with a net gain of 5bn http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...my-but-noneu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html).

 

[Soulman]

Whereas Sompting is overrun with radicalised Muslims.

Always exactly the same idiots trashing threads with the added annoyance of The Truth's latest childish Horsefeathers in the form of Megadrone.

Yep you stated the same a few weeks ago. I do not work in Sompting, i have worked in Birmingham, Manchester, London, Wigan, Doncaster etc, I have also lived up North. I have just finished working with 3 lads from Luton. How about you, do you just live and work local, if so then like me you would not witnesses anything on your doorstep.

 

[Hastings gull]

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. Although I am not sure that I agree with your view of immigration here. I understand that their are several worst case scenarios out there and there are clearly issues in Tower Hamlets, Luton and places like Bradford. As i have said there are immigrants that are refusing to integrate in society, However are we really going to judge immigration as a whole by its worst extremities? Just because there are issues in certain areas that doesn't mean that as a whole immigrants are not integrating. This is what I mean about the media highlighting the issues and ignoring those places where people are getting on.

My overall feeling about this though is that there are more devastating factors effecting the well being of the British public than immigrants. Until the government start governing for the people instead of their cronies they will continue to be happy with the kind of divide and conquer politics that blight this issue.

As I understand it, the high level of immigration to the UK is because of long standing reciprocal agreements between the UK and parts of the former colonies and of course membership of the EU (although EU immigrants have provided the UK with a net gain of 5bn http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...my-but-noneu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html).

Of course one should not judge them all by the actions of the minority -you are quite right. I am sure that virtually all on here would agree with that. What I think does concern folk is that the minority is growing (recent Panorama programme, which you will not have seen) and is ever more emboldened, as they sense that the host population is treating them with kid gloves. Also, as that minority grows, it becomes more of a threat -history shows us that a determined, aggressive, and single-minded minority will invariably hold sway over a more lethargic majority. I think it is fair to say that there is also a suspicion that the more moderate majority could do rather more to isolate the trouble-makers in their midst. This is not always easy, granted, but if the muslim community want to be regarded as peace-loving Brits etc etc, then it is something that has to be done -it is, afterall, in their overwhelming interest.
I am not sure as to the reciprocal arrangements to which you allude -I am too was under that impression long ago, but perhaps someone wiser than I, reading this, can say for sure as to whether we are bound by treaty to continue to accept vast numbers. Somehow I doubt it nowadays??
As to what concerns the British public, the usual things such as the Economy, The NHS obsess us, and immigration is also a huge factor, believe me. In fact I think it comes next as to the worries that the British do have. If the government start governing for the people, where you rather glibly generalise, then one might argue that immigration is virtually stopped. Is this what you mean? . . . .
Anyway, it's late for you -get to bed. . .

 

[Soulman]

Bradford an the Labour mp. Jeez.
http://order-order.com/2015/03/02/l...+parliamentary+plots,+rumours+and+conspiracy)

 

[Nibble]

Yep you stated the same a few weeks ago. I do not work in Sompting, i have worked in Birmingham, Manchester, London, Wigan, Doncaster etc, I have also lived up North. I have just finished working with 3 lads from Luton. How about you, do you just live and work local, if so then like me you would not witnesses anything on your doorstep.

I stated no such thing to you. I have and do work all over. I too live in white areas unaffected by mass immigration and like it that way.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The Horse has bolted now, what was it 780 000 new ni numbers last year ?, a city the size of Manchester in 1 year, this obsession with multi culturism and leaving our borders wide open means the die is cast. Many scholars predict within 40 years the UK will be majority Muslim and as such, mp's and laws passed to follow their religious views and beliefs, Sharia Law in the UK is a very real possibility in the future and we are too far down the road to turn back now. Whether this is good for the UK I will leave people to have their own views

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The Horse has bolted now, what was it 780 000 new ni numbers last year ?, a city the size of Manchester in 1 year, this obsession with multi culturism and leaving our borders wide open means the die is cast. Many scholars predict within 40 years the UK will be majority Muslim and as such, mp's and laws passed to follow their religious views and beliefs, Sharia Law in the UK is a very real possibility in the future and we are too far down the road to turn back now. Whether this is good for the UK I will leave people to have their own views

Attempts have already been made to include Sharia guidelines on how to compile wills, but the law society decided to go back on that idea and rightly so. But it's knocking on the door isn't it. And when people take positions of power are the changes going to made for the good of ALL or just made for the good of that religion and it's people. We are not just dealing with religion we are also dealing with the politics of it too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ines-abandoned-as-Law-Society-apologises.html

The UK has changed.

 

[Soulman]

The Horse has bolted now, what was it 780 000 new ni numbers last year ?, a city the size of Manchester in 1 year, this obsession with multi culturism and leaving our borders wide open means the die is cast. Many scholars predict within 40 years the UK will be majority Muslim and as such, mp's and laws passed to follow their religious views and beliefs, Sharia Law in the UK is a very real possibility in the future and we are too far down the road to turn back now. Whether this is good for the UK I will leave people to have their own views

This is the worrying thing, which if you voice your concerns means you are deemed a number of things. Is it wrong to want your country to abide by the same laws and for others (the majority do) to respect the country that they chose to live in. I shall be pushing up daisies if the worst case scenario happens....but my children will be around and they might envy the country that i was brought up and lived in.

 

[looney]

Its almost daily now.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-03-03/more-than-370-girls-may-have-been-abused-in-oxfordshire/