Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.

[ThePompousPaladin]

You miss Irony don't you? You move straight to abuse when challenged because your a snivelling bitch, the fact your pretty dumb is a seperate issue.

Ohhh get you.
Hit a nerve did i?
All i did was point out where you were factually incorrect. I haven't abused you in the slightest, sensitive are we?

 

[Soulman]

Its almost daily now.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-03-03/more-than-370-girls-may-have-been-abused-in-oxfordshire/

I will repeat myself from well over 18months ago. There were then 54 cases of grooming being investigated, only about a quarter have come to light, a few like Peterborough last week have had little coverage. I expect the coverage to diminish so as not to "stir" up trouble.
So yes, it may not be daily, but many more will hit the press, or not in some cases.

 

[symyjym]

The Horse has bolted now, what was it 780 000 new ni numbers last year ?, a city the size of Manchester in 1 year, this obsession with multi culturism and leaving our borders wide open means the die is cast. Many scholars predict within 40 years the UK will be majority Muslim and as such, mp's and laws passed to follow their religious views and beliefs, Sharia Law in the UK is a very real possibility in the future and we are too far down the road to turn back now. Whether this is good for the UK I will leave people to have their own views

I guess this theory is more dependent on whether Muslim women would vote for Sharia Law, and then knowing that if successful they will never be allowed to vote again. I don’t think there are many Muslim women who want to give their liberty and freedom away.

 

[Soulman]

I guess this theory is more dependent on whether Muslim women would vote for Sharia Law, and then knowing that if successful they will never be allowed to vote again. I don’t think there are many Muslim women who want to give their liberty and freedom away.

They have a choice

 

[symyjym]

They have a choice

If Muslims want Sharia Law they would need Muslim women to vote for it to gain the percentage. If they stop their women from voting as with Sharia Law, their vote wouldn't match their population size, and if they did allow women to vote, how would their husbands or families know if they voted for Sharia Law anyway.

I don't think there are many Muslim women in this country who would be happy to risk a public stoning. We also don't really know how many Muslim men want Sharia, but I doubt it will be 100% of them.

Even with that said our laws are tied up with Europe, so Europe would have to become a Sharia Law continent before the UK could branch off down that route.

In short; I don't think we will have to worry about it.

 

[Hastings gull]

If Muslims want Sharia Law they would need Muslim women to vote for it to gain the percentage. If they stop their women from voting as with Sharia Law, their vote wouldn't match their population size, and if they did allow women to vote, how would their husbands or families know if they voted for Sharia Law anyway.

I don't think there are many Muslim women in this country who would be happy to risk a public stoning. We also don't really know how many Muslim men want Sharia, but I doubt it will be 100% of them.

Even with that said our laws are tied up with Europe, so Europe would have to become a Sharia Law continent before the UK could branch off down that route.

In short; I don't think we will have to worry about it.

In theory I suspect you are quite right but would not put my mortgage on it as they say on MOTD! This all assume that elections would be fair and monitored properly, and reflects our current thinking and expectations, based on 2015 reality. But many years further on, as the extreme minority has become stronger and bigger as a result of being given in to all the time, who can say that the polling station in muslim-dominated areas will be the peaceful area of secret voting that we now take for granted. I would think that there would be massive intimidation within their communities.

 

[symyjym]

In theory I suspect you are quite right but would not put my mortgage on it as they say on MOTD! This all assume that elections would be fair and monitored properly, and reflects our current thinking and expectations, based on 2015 reality. But many years further on, as the extreme minority has become stronger and bigger as a result of being given in to all the time, who can say that the polling station in muslim-dominated areas will be the peaceful area of secret voting that we now take for granted. I would think that there would be massive intimidation within their communities.

Difficult to know exactly what will happen in 40 years, I was just putting forward a counter debate to why we wouldn't become a Sharia Law country.

I haven't researched or done the maths, but I have seen an survey (2006) where it says "40% of Muslims want Sharia Law while 41 per cent opposed it. Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75 per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right"."


I just have to point out that the 20% who had "sympathy with the motives" doesn't equate to agreeing with the it. That percentage seems more in line with a reaction to the illegal Iraq war being the motive. Just 1% thought 7/7 was right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

We have to remember that the Middle East is going through some modernisation, and not everywhere is full of women running around in Burkas. Even Yasser Arafat's wife wouldn't look out of place at Tescos;



Queen Rania of Jordan looks fairly 21st Century as well;



The young Iranian women are 21st Century as well;



I think there is more chance for the Muslim world of modernising than Sharia Law taking over Britain.

 

[Hastings gull]

Difficult to know exactly what will happen in 40 years, I was just putting forward a counter debate to why we wouldn't become a Sharia Law country.

I haven't researched or done the maths, but I have seen an survey (2006) where it says "40% of Muslims want Sharia Law while 41 per cent opposed it. Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75 per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right"."


I just have to point out that the 20% who had "sympathy with the motives" doesn't equate to agreeing with the it. That percentage seems more in line with a reaction to the illegal Iraq war being the motive. Just 1% thought 7/7 was right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

We have to remember that the Middle East is going through some modernisation, and not everywhere is full of women running around in Burkas. Even Yasser Arafat's wife wouldn't look out of place at Tescos;

View attachment 63528

Queen Rania of Jordan looks fairly 21st Century as well;

View attachment 63529

The young Iranian women are 21st Century as well;

View attachment 63530

I think there is more chance for the Muslim world of modernising than Sharia Law taking over Britain.

I hope that you are right, believe me, and thanks for your reply by the way. Thanks for the stats -whilst not disbelieving yourself in any way, I have virtually given up taking stats such as these at face value, knowing how info can be manipulated and I notice that the survey was done in 2006! An awful long time ago considering what has happened since. I have been to Tunisia and you are right, there is much modernity in respect of women's clothing, and not all women go around with a burka. Similarly in Germany Turkish girls are westernised, though I could not give a percentage. You are right - who knows what will happen in 40 years. What worries me is that the extreme minority seems to be growing and mass immigration from the Third World will, percentage-wise, surely only increase their level of support. History teaches us that a determined and ruthless minority will wield influence way out of proportion to their numbers.

 

[symyjym]

I hope that you are right, believe me, and thanks for your reply by the way. Thanks for the stats -whilst not disbelieving yourself in any way, I have virtually given up taking stats such as these at face value, knowing how info can be manipulated and I notice that the survey was done in 2006! An awful long time ago considering what has happened since. I have been to Tunisia and you are right, there is much modernity in respect of women's clothing, and not all women go around with a burka. Similarly in Germany Turkish girls are westernised, though I could not give a percentage. You are right - who knows what will happen in 40 years. What worries me is that the extreme minority seems to be growing and mass immigration from the Third World will, percentage-wise, surely only increase their level of support. History teaches us that a determined and ruthless minority will wield influence way out of proportion to their numbers.

We just have to avoid handing them a narrative for motivation. Unfortunately the war in Iraq was misguided when it went against the UN, public, and world opinion. The extreme Muslims would say; “Illegal war warrants revenge” and they will justify their “illegal war” because of the Bush/Blair illegal war. We handed them a recruitment propaganda tool on a plate and we can't afford to ever do this again.

 

[Hastings gull]

We just have to avoid handing them a narrative for motivation. Unfortunately the war in Iraq was misguided when it went against the UN, public, and world opinion. The extreme Muslims would say; “Illegal war warrants revenge” and they will justify their “illegal war” because of the Bush/Blair illegal war. We handed them a recruitment propaganda tool on a plate and we can't afford to ever do this again.

I think most would accept what you say and certainly that we cannot again afford to undertake something illegal-to an extent! It has handed them an excuse but we cannot keep blaming ourselves. It was not our fault that they were then determined to kill each other or that, contrary to American advice, the Shiite government decided not to involve the sunnis. Nor is it our fault that atrocities are committed in Nigeria etc or that there has been religious strife in parts of Indonesia. Nor is it our fault that in Syria they cannot find a compromise.The extreme element like to portray the West as evil, as it suits them. I do recall that the outgunned Bosnian muslims had much sympathy in the West, so it is not totally one-sided.

 

[Soulman]

Difficult to know exactly what will happen in 40 years, I was just putting forward a counter debate to why we wouldn't become a Sharia Law country.

I haven't researched or done the maths, but I have seen an survey (2006) where it says "40% of Muslims want Sharia Law while 41 per cent opposed it. Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75 per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right"."


I just have to point out that the 20% who had "sympathy with the motives" doesn't equate to agreeing with the it. That percentage seems more in line with a reaction to the illegal Iraq war being the motive. Just 1% thought 7/7 was right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

We have to remember that the Middle East is going through some modernisation, and not everywhere is full of women running around in Burkas. Even Yasser Arafat's wife wouldn't look out of place at Tescos;

View attachment 63528

Queen Rania of Jordan looks fairly 21st Century as well;

View attachment 63529

The young Iranian women are 21st Century as well;

View attachment 63530

I think there is more chance for the Muslim world of modernising than Sharia Law taking over Britain.

Take a look at Afghanistan in the 70's..........and now.
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/01/27/afghanistanthen-and-now/

 

[symyjym]

Take a look at Afghanistan in the 70's..........and now.
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/01/27/afghanistanthen-and-now/

Is this a game of guess the point

Ok, I will try and guess what you are trying to say, you are saying that no matter how modernised Islam becomes, they will always become terrorists?

 

[Soulman]

Is this a game of guess the point

Ok, I will try and guess what you are trying to say, you are saying that no matter how modernised Islam becomes, they will always become terrorists?

You put up photos picked to show that Islam has moved forward. I have responded with photos of how in an area (and there are other areas) where things have gone backwards from the 70's. The bhurka is not a requirement in Islam, and the bhurka (covering up and control) is on the up in this country also.
If you have to be obtuse, and try to put words (no i am "not saying" and terrorists was your assumption) into my post, then i think you surely realised that it was about how in certain places the dress code has become less liberal....i think you knew that.

 

[symyjym]

I think most would accept what you say and certainly that we cannot again afford to undertake something illegal-to an extent! It has handed them an excuse but we cannot keep blaming ourselves. It was not our fault that they were then determined to kill each other or that, contrary to American advice, the Shiite government decided not to involve the sunnis. Nor is it our fault that atrocities are committed in Nigeria etc or that there has been religious strife in parts of Indonesia. Nor is it our fault that in Syria they cannot find a compromise.The extreme element like to portray the West as evil, as it suits them. I do recall that the outgunned Bosnian muslims had much sympathy in the West, so it is not totally one-sided.

All of what you say doesn't excuse an illegal war that cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. It is wrong to brush this under the carpet as if nothing had happened and use other conflicts to condone it. The sooner we learn from our mistakes the better and I am sure we are.

British born extremists and 7/7 is a direct response for the illegal war in Iraq, and we cannot divert a debate to what is going on in Nigeria or Indonesia. With regard to Bosnia they were in death camps and we were the good guys. With regard to Syria this discussion would be too time consuming.

As for the ME portraying the West as evil. Do you remember the Bush Axis of Evil speech? At the moment the Iraqi army, Iranian militia, and the US are currently fighting against a common enemy together and they are now on common ground, especially with the nuclear (power) negotiations going on as we speak.

The only good that can come of this is that now the ME states US are uniting to fight the same enemy.

We have just had the sad news of of Becky Watt's sickening murder, as bad as any IS crime, and unfortunately the world we live in there are sick people everywhere. Sick people will always take a chance or opportunity to do sick things. If you put 10's or 100's of sick people together you get a group like IS.

 

[symyjym]

You put up photos picked to show that Islam has moved forward. I have responded with photos of how in an area (and there are other areas) where things have gone backwards from the 70's. The bhurka is not a requirement in Islam, and the bhurka (covering up and control) is on the up in this country also.
If you have to be obtuse, and try to put words (no i am "not saying" and terrorists was your assumption) into my post, then i think you surely realised that it was about how in certain places the dress code has become less liberal....i think you knew that.

I put photos up and made an effort to write something to go with them. All you said was "Look" and then fvcked off. Your photos could mean a million things, so if you want to make a point say it instead of leaving me to guess what your brain is thinking. I was talking with reference to Palistine and Jordan with another poster and you quickly switched it to Afghanistan after a brutal war WTF.

 

[Hastings gull]

All of what you say doesn't excuse an illegal war that cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. It is wrong to brush this under the carpet as if nothing had happened and use other conflicts to condone it. The sooner we learn from our mistakes the better and I am sure we are.

British born extremists and 7/7 is a direct response for the illegal war in Iraq, and we cannot divert a debate to what is going on in Nigeria or Indonesia. With regard to Bosnia they were in death camps and we were the good guys. With regard to Syria this discussion would be too time consuming.

As for the ME portraying the West as evil. Do you remember the Bush Axis of Evil speech? At the moment the Iraqi army, Iranian militia, and the US are currently fighting against a common enemy together and they are now on common ground, especially with the nuclear (power) negotiations going on as we speak.

The only good that can come of this is that now the ME states US are uniting to fight the same enemy.

We have just had the sad news of of Becky Watt's sickening murder, as bad as any IS crime, and unfortunately the world we live in there are sick people everywhere. Sick people will always take a chance or opportunity to do sick things. If you put 10's or 100's of sick people together you get a group like IS.

With respect, as the debate goes on, you seem to become less rational and far more prone to exaggeration. I have not for one moment claimed that what I said should excuse an illegal war and I acknowledged the obvious, namely that most folk agree that this was decidedly not helpful. Nor have I attempted to brush it under the carpet or condone it, and fully agreed with you about the war. What more do you want?
You seem to be quite obsessive about the war and not at all open-minded as to any counter arguments. I am NOT diverting the debate -just pointing out that, bad as the situation was, it cannot be the reason for all the ills with muslim extremism. It cannot explain problems with muslim fanatics in Nigeria, for example. I haven't got a clue what your reference to Bosnia is about, by the way. I do also find it hard to find the thread in your final 3 paras.
As to British-born extremism being directly linked to the Iraq War - it may be, but I could not be sure that it is all that simple, and more to the point, nor can you. The more that is coming out about this latest character, the more we see character flaws, which may have far more to do with his conversion. Have you investigated the motives of the hundreds who have gone to fight for IS? I think that this is just what you want to believe.
I am more than happy to debate the issue with you, but ask respectfully that you read what others are writing, and not launch into diatribes which are unnecessary and unhelpful.

 

[Soulman]

I put photos up and made an effort to write something to go with them. All you said was "Look" and then fvcked off. Your photos could mean a million things, so if you want to make a point say it instead of leaving me to guess what your brain is thinking. I was talking with reference to Palistine and Jordan with another poster and you quickly switched it to Afghanistan after a brutal war WTF.

Sorry you had to click on the link to see the photos. Sometimes after working all day i do not have the time to save and post about 10 photos. As usual you put your own spin on what you would like to think the poster is thinking. Mind the language as well eh.

 

[Soulman]

With respect, as the debate goes on, you seem to become less rational and far more prone to exaggeration.
I am more than happy to debate the issue with you, but ask respectfully that you read what others are writing, and not launch into diatribes which are unnecessary and unhelpful.

Indeed, you beat me to it.

 

[symyjym]

With respect, as the debate goes on, you seem to become less rational and far more prone to exaggeration. I have not for one moment claimed that what I said should excuse an illegal war and I acknowledged the obvious, namely that most folk agree that this was decidedly not helpful. Nor have I attempted to brush it under the carpet or condone it, and fully agreed with you about the war. What more do you want?
You seem to be quite obsessive about the war and not at all open-minded as to any counter arguments. I am NOT diverting the debate -just pointing out that, bad as the situation was, it cannot be the reason for all the ills with muslim extremism. It cannot explain problems with muslim fanatics in Nigeria, for example. I haven't got a clue what your reference to Bosnia is about, by the way. I do also find it hard to find the thread in your final 3 paras.
As to British-born extremism being directly linked to the Iraq War - it may be, but I could not be sure that it is all that simple, and more to the point, nor can you. The more that is coming out about this latest character, the more we see character flaws, which may have far more to do with his conversion. Have you investigated the motives of the hundreds who have gone to fight for IS? I think that this is just what you want to believe.
I am more than happy to debate the issue with you, but ask respectfully that you read what others are writing, and not launch into diatribes which are unnecessary and unhelpful.

I didn't launch into any diatribe, I only responded to your post. There is nothing that I have said that you should be offended by. We were talking about the Sharia Law in Britain and the extremist problem we have on our doorstep.

With your comment, to go through it all, would take hours to respond to all your points because each individual conflict is complex. It is impossible on a forum to go around the world comparing distant wars that we are not directly involved in unless you want a 100 page essay.

 

[symyjym]

Sorry you had to click on the link to see the photos. Sometimes after working all day i do not have the time to save and post about 10 photos. As usual you put your own spin on what you would like to think the poster is thinking. Mind the language as well eh.

My post was about why Sharia Law will never happen in the UK, and that there is a modern side to Islam. Your link to photos was depicting the mistreatment of women in Afghanistan, that has been in many conflicts over the last 40 years, and it implied that we should all fear that this and Sharia Law will happen over here.

My only angle is a positive one, but your link has no direct point and is open to guess work, which I haven’t got time to indulge in and respond to.