Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.

[looney]

I don't agree with the Sharia law, and I hate anything to do with religion, but I am not surprised that different cultures want to take their laws with them because we have done so in the past.

you are what Salman Rushdie calls part of the "but brigade", and in this case you are woefully of the mark. It was a characteristic of British rule that it did not interfere in local cultures, laws etc. that why there was minimal military prescense as avoiding pissing of the locals was high on the agenda. In fact one of the biggest fear was for British troops or officials "Going Native".

Oh btw "We" did no such thing, you are making a historical reference for purposes of self embasement driven by your miss placed guilt and ignorance.

 

[symyjym]

you are what Salman Rushdie calls part of the "but brigade", and in this case you are woefully of the mark. It was a characteristic of British rule that it did not interfere in local cultures, laws etc. that why there was minimal military prescense as avoiding pissing of the locals was high on the agenda. In fact one of the biggest fear was for British troops or officials "Going Native".

Oh btw "We" did no such thing, you are making a historical reference for purposes of self embasement driven by your miss placed guilt and ignorance.

Your point fell over when you said British rule.

 

[looney]

Your point fell over when you said British rule.

Only if you wish to dodge the issue, I mean't culture and local laws.

 

[symyjym]

Only if you wish to dodge the issue, I mean't culture and local laws.

I’m not dodging anything. Colonialism left shadows in its wake, and if it didn’t, Gandhi and Mandela must have missed the point.

 

[symyjym]

No, no I'm not. If you look back just one page on this thread I used an exemplar of a good friend of mine, a Bangladeshi Muslim, who has struggled with racism and cultural problems from his own community for him being integrated and from Brits for him being a "paki".

What I AM saying is that expats from the UK expect to be treated by their host countries as a subject of the law and cultural norms wherever they are in the world. Those who fail to do so are given little sympathy by us...for example those two dirty buggers who were shagging on the beach in Dubai.

Nowhere have I said that British muslims all want to behead us. That's clearly rubbish, but I have said that we have managed to develop several thousand jihadists who grew up in the UK but somehow outside it. Is that not your impression? If you believe otherwise you're either totally ignorant of current events or sadly misled.

In the days when we were Empire builders we did go around under the motto "make the world England" and that legacy has left us with a cultural burden that we are still struggling to shake off as hundreds of thousands of migrants from the old empire and protectorates queue up to come here to enjoy the kinds of freedoms only dreamt of in their own countries. We are no longer masters of a global land grab and our citizens overseas, in my experience, are humble and respectful of local traditions. I am NOT, by the way, talking about the red faced piss artists who can't be arsed to go further than Spain and who will sit in the bar in toremolinos all day eating roast dinners on Sunday and reading the Sun. They are not cultural avatars for the UK and everyone knows how embarrassing they are. I'm talking about professional people who work and live outside of Europe where cultural differences are far more marked.

I have travelled widely in my work and met Brits from Senegal to Saudi and they are a credit to us in the main.

My point was. If I went to seek a life in a country far away where culture was really different I would not expect to be able to walk about dressed in whatever I wanted, to say whatever I liked and treat my wife however I liked whether or not that jarred with everyone else who lived near me without anyone objecting.

If there is an issue with hundreds of thousands of Brits moving to Pakistan or Somalia and trying to build churches everywhere and walking about in g strings whilst eating fish and chips or holding demonstrations next to rememberance ceremonies for dead Muslim soldiers killed fighting the British where they burn the flag of their host country or calling for the establishment of C of E law I am not aware of it.

Even when we were Imperialists we respected the religions of the locals and never called for mandatory oaths of allegiance to Jesus.
Some on here are clearly struggling with comparators. Either that or they're just arguing for the sake of it.

I am in agreement with this. When in Rome and all that. All I am saying is that it is in our species nature to take over and rule, whether with good, bad or just plain ignorant intentions. Easter Island was turned into sheep grazing land, lost it's culture and became Catholic. Why would I be surprised if some Muslims want Sharia Law? I wouldn't be. Will they ever achieve it? Of course they won't.

It is possible to understand human psychology without agreeing with it.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I am in agreement with this. When in Rome and all that. All I am saying is that it is in our species nature to take over and rule, whether with good, bad or just plain ignorant intentions. Easter Island was turned into sheep grazing land, lost it's culture and became Catholic. Why would I be surprised if some Muslims want Sharia Law? I wouldn't be. Will they ever achieve it? Of course they won't.

It is possible to understand human psychology without agreeing with it.

This one hit the buffers and rightly so.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/24/law-society-withdraws-guidance-sharia-wills

Many other examples of Sharia making it's way in to our system for example in banking. I think we are the only country in the whole of the EU that offers this
http://www.lloydsbank.com/current-accounts/islamic-account.asp
[url]http://www.buildingconstructiondesign.co.uk/news/lcps-new-sharia-residential-fund-london-central-apartments-ii-receives-government-backing/
[/URL]

 

[looney]

I’m not dodging anything. Colonialism left shadows in its wake, and if it didn’t, Gandhi and Mandela must have missed the point.

Again you miss the point or attempt to move the goal posts. Let me put it another way. If you are "not suprised " that other cultures wish to impose their laws on us why are you arguing as an advocate for them?

The only "Shadow in the wake" is your imagination. Most countries were left democratic, debt free and with an infrastructure, self rule for the first time. Compared to the French empire which was a lot smaller we had 1/10th of the casualties on disolution about 60,000. Most due to partition in India.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

The only "Shadow in the wake" is your imagination. Most countries were left democratic, debt free and with an infrastructure, self rule for the first time. Compared to the French empire which was a lot smaller we had 1/10th of the casualties on disolution about 60,000. Most due to partition in India.

Again your facts are a little off, but thanks for sharing your ignorant opinion.

The partition of India was probably the biggest humanitarian crisis the world has ever seen.

Need me to google that for you, or are you capable today?

 

[Baldseagull]

Again your facts are a little off, but thanks for sharing your ignorant opinion.

The partition of India was probably the biggest humanitarian crisis the world has ever seen.

Need me to google that for you, or are you capable today?

And why was there Partition in India? Anything to do with Muslims wanting a separate state with Muslim law by any chance?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

And why was there Partition in India? Anything to do with Muslims wanting a separate state with Muslim law by any chance?

I'm not sure of the details, i'll add it to my list to read up on...

I do know the violence was both ways and was widespread, although starvation and disease almost certainly took more than murders. I'm also pretty sure that looney plucked those figures from out of his empty head, rather than any kind of historic source.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

A link to show looney's figures are as usual inaccurate, and as usual slanted towards a bigoted angle.

 

[symyjym]

Again you miss the point or attempt to move the goal posts. Let me put it another way. If you are "not suprised " that other cultures wish to impose their laws on us why are you arguing as an advocate for them?

The only "Shadow in the wake" is your imagination. Most countries were left democratic, debt free and with an infrastructure, self rule for the first time. Compared to the French empire which was a lot smaller we had 1/10th of the casualties on disolution about 60,000. Most due to partition in India.

You are the one moving the goal posts and missing the point.

You said:

It was a characteristic of British rule that it did not interfere in local cultures, laws etc. .

Then you say " Most countries were left democratic" If that is not interfering with local cultures and laws, I don't know what is.

A democratic country will want to spread democracy, a socialist country will want to spread socialism, a communist country will want to spread communism. France and Britain were both spreading “democracy” when they were both at war with each other in America.

I am not advocating anything. I am just saying what our species does, but unfortunately you are more interested in turning a human psychology point into an offensive black or white argument. There is a massive difference between "not being surprised" that different cultures wish to impose their laws, to personally promoting Sharia law in this country.

You are clearly trying to give the impression to others on this forum, that I am advocating Sharia Law in this country, purely for your overwhelming desire to make an argument out of nothing. If you cannot have an adult discussion without using unfounded accusations there is no point in discussing anything at all.

 

[looney]

Again your facts are a little off, but thanks for sharing your ignorant opinion.

The partition of India was probably the biggest humanitarian crisis the world has ever seen.

Need me to google that for you, or are you capable today?

One of my few errors which I am happy to admit to, unlike your continual braying but no retractions. Dont see how the UK was culpable but anyway, thats the sort of stuff we've been importing.

 

[looney]

You are the one moving the goal posts and missing the point.

You said:



Then you say " Most countries were left democratic" If that is not interfering with local cultures and laws, I don't know what is.

A democratic country will want to spread democracy, a socialist country will want to spread socialism, a communist country will want to spread communism. France and Britain were both spreading “democracy” when they were both at war with each other in America.

Left democratic means left to choose, nothing was enfoced like other credos. Oh and they were not spreading Democracy in North America, Just mass immigration, ring any bells.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

One of my few errors...

I see your memory is short too, want me to link the point in this thread when you threw your toys out of the pram?

 

[looney]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

A link to show looney's figures are as usual inaccurate, and as usual slanted towards a bigoted angle.

Yet again you are trying to put words in my mouth, something your not smart enough to do. the estimates have been revized up, a mistake I admitted.

As for bigoted, that is something else you are not smart enough to claim.

 

[looney]

I see your memory is short too, want me to link the point in this thread when you threw your toys out of the pram?

You can do as you please, it became obvious a while back that I am dealing with an idiot, you.

Yes I do make the odd error, quoting from memory, not many though. Wereas you go of at one when you are challenged. But you are managable. Your projections can be exposed, coutered and block. the limited natures of your arguments can be highlighted as you desperatly hang on to technical side points.

Your managable, like all fools, but do what ever suits you.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Yes I do make the odd error, quoting from memory, not many though.

Good on you for admitting you just pulled those numbers out of thin air, rather than researching it.

I feel this is a step in the right direction with you, we'll get there!

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Yet again you are trying to put words in my mouth, something your not smart enough to do. the estimates have been revized up, a mistake I admitted.

As for bigoted, that is something else you are not smart enough to claim.

I love this one.

Firstly i didn't claim you were bigoted, go and read the words again, then see what they mean rather than being presumptuous. If i wanted to say, 'you're a bigot' i would have written that, wouldn't i? Bless.

Secondly, do you see the funny bit, claiming that i've put words in your mouth? When you just did exactly that.

Perhaps your language skills are lacking? You've already shown twice on this thread that you can't find your arse with both hands, so it wouldn't be surprising.

 

[symyjym]

Left democratic means left to choose, nothing was enfoced like other credos. Oh and they were not spreading Democracy in North America, Just mass immigration, ring any bells.

Have you ever thought about contributing to Wikipedia? They would be much shorter reads if you did.