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Religion...
- Thread starter Wilts
- Start date
Lord Bracknell
On fire
There was an interesting church started up in central Italy in the 1870s by a man called David Lazzaretti.
It's main principle was that the Kingdom of God was at an end and it was time to proclaim the Republic of God.
Leadership of his church was handed over to children, with the leader being selected by a raffle.
They created a community of believers on top of a mountain.
All rather whimsical. But it put the frighteners on the authorities. The church condemned him and the state shot him dead.
The sect survived until the 1970s. I met several believers when I lived in Italy and visited their church on top of Monte Labbro.
It's main principle was that the Kingdom of God was at an end and it was time to proclaim the Republic of God.
Leadership of his church was handed over to children, with the leader being selected by a raffle.
They created a community of believers on top of a mountain.
All rather whimsical. But it put the frighteners on the authorities. The church condemned him and the state shot him dead.
The sect survived until the 1970s. I met several believers when I lived in Italy and visited their church on top of Monte Labbro.
I'm an aetheist, I dont believe in it . . .the bible is just a story, changed, and changed, and changed, again and again and again, it if was so bloody good why didnt someone own up to writing it?
it contradicts itself and can be interpretted in any number of ways.
a lot of weak people hide behind religion, I dont think its quite as extreme as all religious people are weak
I agree that religion is behind most evil, whether the removal of religion would improve that is highly doubtful, we still have money and greed !
the most important thing is to have good morals, I believe I have, and I sleep well at night
it contradicts itself and can be interpretted in any number of ways.
a lot of weak people hide behind religion, I dont think its quite as extreme as all religious people are weak
I agree that religion is behind most evil, whether the removal of religion would improve that is highly doubtful, we still have money and greed !
the most important thing is to have good morals, I believe I have, and I sleep well at night
Soton Seagull
Well-known member
Agnostic myself. Can't be doing with organised religion, which often seems to breed prejudice and intolerance, where in fact it should promote understanding and some sort of harmony.
People have the right to believe what they want and private faith is all well and good. I do feel that a number of people rely far to much on scriptures to justify life decisions and opinions. For my part I reckon the bible etc are simply metaphorical (could have chosen the wrong word there), they put historical occurences in to a storytelling setting and use poetic license as any storyteller would. The scriptures for many religeons were written well after the alledged events, so from a historical point of view could only ever be looked upon as secondary sources, at best.
Organised Religion by it's very nature is corrupt, almost in a monarchical (spelt wrong I think!) system. With those at the top telling others how to conduct their lives, based on their own interpretation of given data/passed down rumours/legend. Like a powerful business decisions are made at a 'board' level, as are major appointments.
To give 2 classic organised religion examples of corruption: Henry XIII wanted to get divored, Catholic church said no, so he sets up his own Church, which millions still worship in today. Secondly, Catholic church used to allow people to pay penance. You could actually pay cash to have your sins forgiven! Nowadays this practice is called 'therapy'!
Must stop now as wittering. I hope I have not offended anyone, I am just sick of seeing religious 'leaders' on TV preaching morals, when parts of their order are based on falsehoods and hypocracy.
People have the right to believe what they want and private faith is all well and good. I do feel that a number of people rely far to much on scriptures to justify life decisions and opinions. For my part I reckon the bible etc are simply metaphorical (could have chosen the wrong word there), they put historical occurences in to a storytelling setting and use poetic license as any storyteller would. The scriptures for many religeons were written well after the alledged events, so from a historical point of view could only ever be looked upon as secondary sources, at best.
Organised Religion by it's very nature is corrupt, almost in a monarchical (spelt wrong I think!) system. With those at the top telling others how to conduct their lives, based on their own interpretation of given data/passed down rumours/legend. Like a powerful business decisions are made at a 'board' level, as are major appointments.
To give 2 classic organised religion examples of corruption: Henry XIII wanted to get divored, Catholic church said no, so he sets up his own Church, which millions still worship in today. Secondly, Catholic church used to allow people to pay penance. You could actually pay cash to have your sins forgiven! Nowadays this practice is called 'therapy'!
Must stop now as wittering. I hope I have not offended anyone, I am just sick of seeing religious 'leaders' on TV preaching morals, when parts of their order are based on falsehoods and hypocracy.
the right footed denilson
New member
wow!!
the stats are startling!!!
this is modern britain!! we dont need religion!! we've got football, music, women and beer!!
the stats are startling!!!
this is modern britain!! we dont need religion!! we've got football, music, women and beer!!
Mr Popkins
New member
dave the gaffer said:
but he was just a magician, nothing more.
how is that not an intelligent thought?
I totally agree with zeferellys comments ,he,s spot on.
tinx
Well-known member
Yeha there should be a lisitng for whats your religion. Brighton and Hove Albion. I've seen brighton play more times this seaosn than the number of times I've been to church in my whole life.
Dave the OAP
Well-known member
a magician?
So a magician preached tollerance and patience to a country under occupation from a brutal dictatorship. He went against the fundamental teachings of the Jewish faith by proclaiming himself the Son of God. His birth was foretold by "stories" written thousands of years before. He was such a good magician that he allowed himself to be betrayed at a dinner given by him. He allowed himself to be taken before the ruling governor of the time and refused to defend himself, knowing that death was the only option to him if he went along with his claims. He was such a magician that he allowed himself to be nailed to a cross where he died horribly over the timescale of about 14 hours. He was such a good magician that millions of people believe that he is in fact the Son of God and indeed he was the best magician ever.
Really
Good analogy Popkins
So a magician preached tollerance and patience to a country under occupation from a brutal dictatorship. He went against the fundamental teachings of the Jewish faith by proclaiming himself the Son of God. His birth was foretold by "stories" written thousands of years before. He was such a good magician that he allowed himself to be betrayed at a dinner given by him. He allowed himself to be taken before the ruling governor of the time and refused to defend himself, knowing that death was the only option to him if he went along with his claims. He was such a magician that he allowed himself to be nailed to a cross where he died horribly over the timescale of about 14 hours. He was such a good magician that millions of people believe that he is in fact the Son of God and indeed he was the best magician ever.
Really
Good analogy Popkins
Oddly enough I believe each an everyone of us are affected by religion in some form...
If you believe you are a moral person - why do you believe this? Who taught you the difference between what you perceive as right and wrong?? Most probably your upbringing and the upbringing of the generation before that and the laws put upon us by an old religious based legal system? and what does that most resemble?? The Ten commandments.... thou shall not kill... thou shall not committ adultery...Thou shall not steal.....thou shall not bear false witness....
or is that just one big coincidence??
I don't think weak people hide behind religion at all - football can be and has been called a religion, its a persons right to choose their way of life....and a persons right to choose what assistance they need to get the most out of their own life - and if a church can provide that then that is their choice.... although the part where they feel they should go out and force it on others I disagree with....
If you believe you are a moral person - why do you believe this? Who taught you the difference between what you perceive as right and wrong?? Most probably your upbringing and the upbringing of the generation before that and the laws put upon us by an old religious based legal system? and what does that most resemble?? The Ten commandments.... thou shall not kill... thou shall not committ adultery...Thou shall not steal.....thou shall not bear false witness....
or is that just one big coincidence??
I don't think weak people hide behind religion at all - football can be and has been called a religion, its a persons right to choose their way of life....and a persons right to choose what assistance they need to get the most out of their own life - and if a church can provide that then that is their choice.... although the part where they feel they should go out and force it on others I disagree with....
Mr Popkins
New member
dave the gaffer said:
but i dont beleive in any of the bible ,its just a story , what i do believe is that there was a guy who proclaimed to be the son of god, but was no more than a magician, its a case of chinese whispers, over time the stories have become exagerated,.
take the loafs and fishes 'story' he probably had a loaf and a fish and cut it up to feed 5 people by the time the story ,reach other people it turned into 5000!, people had never seen a magician b4 and worshipped the man.
at the end of the day ,no one really knows the truth,its all hearsay.
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
I think that the bible is based on fact, but has included morals to teach people the right and wrong in society. I do believe that Jesus did live and taught people what he believed in, but as Mr popkins said, i dont believe that he fed 5000. Its just a moral not to waste stuff, and share and share alike.
at the beginning it was just somebodies opinion, he told/forced/persuaded somebody else, and so on and so on . . . .over hundreds of generations a general pattern will emerge, 90+% of us all have generally good morals and probably abide by the 10 commandments (what ever they are) theyre not exactly the be all and end all of good conduct
ok Dave you've made a good point of shredding Popkins analogy, at a glance I thought it was quite funny, if you believe the whole Jesus story you've obviously been at the Grolsch, its way beyond even a Dwayne story
ok Dave you've made a good point of shredding Popkins analogy, at a glance I thought it was quite funny, if you believe the whole Jesus story you've obviously been at the Grolsch, its way beyond even a Dwayne story
For the sake of those who believe that the Bible has 'evolved'
It has been written in two languages which have survived thousands of years
Old Testament - Hebrew and New Testament - Greek (despite Latin being the most common language of the day)
Therefore it is still reasonably easy to translate from the oldest documents to survive.
When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in a cave in 1948 it was shown to be copies of the book of Isaiah. The Hebrew was still clearly seen and translated. It was word for word exactly the same as printed in modern day Bibles.
It has been written in two languages which have survived thousands of years
Old Testament - Hebrew and New Testament - Greek (despite Latin being the most common language of the day)
Therefore it is still reasonably easy to translate from the oldest documents to survive.
When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in a cave in 1948 it was shown to be copies of the book of Isaiah. The Hebrew was still clearly seen and translated. It was word for word exactly the same as printed in modern day Bibles.
Dave the OAP
Well-known member
I take it you didnt get the loaves and fishys story then.
As I understand it, the loaves and fishes story relates to Jesus being a "fisher of men", in the same way as he is portrayed as as a shepherd. A fisher of men relates to a Jewish story in the bible where Abraham used the analogy of casting a line into the pool and catching one fish at a time, whereas if the fisherman casts a net, he will inevitably catch more people in the net.
Chistians/Jews/Muslims believe that when Jesus came to earth, the world was Godless and Jesus was sent to reign in the fold and point them in the direction of the "light"( Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a prophet in the same way Mohammed was a prophet, but not the son of Allah or God, in the same was they do not believe Mohammed was the Son of God) The "story" of Jesus healing the blind is another analogy of turning peoples faces towards God and "out of the darkness"
I sound like Billy graham here and I do not mean to. I am not a religious zealot and firmly believe it is everyones right to follow what religion they want , if in fact they want to follow one at all. What I do not do is "rubbish" someones beliefs by belittling them by trying to be "clever and witty".
As I understand it, the loaves and fishes story relates to Jesus being a "fisher of men", in the same way as he is portrayed as as a shepherd. A fisher of men relates to a Jewish story in the bible where Abraham used the analogy of casting a line into the pool and catching one fish at a time, whereas if the fisherman casts a net, he will inevitably catch more people in the net.
Chistians/Jews/Muslims believe that when Jesus came to earth, the world was Godless and Jesus was sent to reign in the fold and point them in the direction of the "light"( Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a prophet in the same way Mohammed was a prophet, but not the son of Allah or God, in the same was they do not believe Mohammed was the Son of God) The "story" of Jesus healing the blind is another analogy of turning peoples faces towards God and "out of the darkness"
I sound like Billy graham here and I do not mean to. I am not a religious zealot and firmly believe it is everyones right to follow what religion they want , if in fact they want to follow one at all. What I do not do is "rubbish" someones beliefs by belittling them by trying to be "clever and witty".
but its still a fabrication/interpretation of a story/exagerated version of ancient history
Mr Popkins
New member
dave- you are belittiing my beliefs , i firmly believe that he was paul daniels.
lets just respect each others views. and hearby end this.
Dave-
Jesus loves you, everybody else thinks your a wanker!
lets just respect each others views. and hearby end this.
Dave-
Jesus loves you, everybody else thinks your a wanker!
Dave the OAP
Well-known member
Zef
I personally believe that Jesus was indeed a great man, in the same way that I also think Nelson Mandella, or Albert Schweitzer or Martin Luther King were great men.
I dont believe the whole story and sometimes faith belies proof.
Bottom line is we don't know and we will only find out when we shuttle off the mortal coil. I would rather hedge my bets.....eternity is a hell of a long time if there is something there and you are not part of the club
I personally believe that Jesus was indeed a great man, in the same way that I also think Nelson Mandella, or Albert Schweitzer or Martin Luther King were great men.
I dont believe the whole story and sometimes faith belies proof.
Bottom line is we don't know and we will only find out when we shuttle off the mortal coil. I would rather hedge my bets.....eternity is a hell of a long time if there is something there and you are not part of the club
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
ok, stop it now children. Religion is what you want it to be, and your opinions are opinion and not fact. however much you want it to be.
End of thread
End of thread
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Dave the OAP
Well-known member
Petty insults
I wouldn't have expected anything less from you Mr popkins
I wouldn't have expected anything less from you Mr popkins