[Misc] Religion - the Church of England - what future?

[Megazone]

odd arguement your making since i didnt say anything about death. Bad Things dont necessary mean death, for some that might be a relief. care to try again answering the actual question? while we wait on some input from Thunder Bolt.

I already have answered your question. I'll repeat- Who knows? Maybe God works in mysterious ways?

Silly question considering you blatantly know no one can answer your question without absolute certainty. It's as if you're trying to win some sort of endless debate...

 

[beorhthelm]

I already have answered your question. I'll repeat- Who knows? Maybe God works in mysterious ways?

Silly question considering you blatantly know no one can answer your question without absolute certainty. It's as if you're trying to win some sort of endless debate...

not really an endless debate, more making the simple point the debate is done: Bad Things refute the existance of God.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Disagree with pretty much everything you have written.
One question though - why do you think you cannot have an amazing life if you are a Christian?

I'm coming back to this because you never did expain yourself. I made quite a lot of points, some of which were checkable facts, others that were reasoned vewpoints (explained) and others that were inferences from personal experience. It is simply illogical to dismiss 'pretty much everything' I wrote with no explanation. It is gobsmackingly arrogant.

You disagree with Russell's interpretation of the evolution of religion, right? Well of course you do because presumably religion was handed to humans by god. You reject the idea that humans have a psychological need to believe in things? Well of course you do because you believe that Christianity is literally the truth, and unquestioning belief is an article of faith. So it was pretty much pointless your responding to my post, wasn't it? It matters not how many pages of evidence and reasoning I give you. The only thing that matters is what you believe.

But you are insufficiently honest to admit it. Instead you use the typical weasel words of a card carrying christian - blandly stating you disagree, as if this has some sort of intrinsic value (god-given value, presumably) that defenestrates the entirety of my post.

This attitude, if I might say so, is a hallmark of too many religious adherents (a point I have explained previously); some of you seem to think you can believe in anything, and inspired by that you then slap down reasoned argument, then end the discussion. I think that is arrogance and intellectual nobbery of the lowest order. Not an attractive combination. It may be how you'd treat your kids if they asked why they can't stay up late, but it is not how you speak to an adult who is attempting to engage with ideas.

Anyway, that sounds a bit pompous so I'll drag this back to a more earthly level: you're an annoying prat and I should have simply invited you to sod off

 

[Megazone]

not really an endless debate, more making the simple point the debate is done: Bad Things refute the existance of God.

I might be wrong but doesn't Christianity preach about the existence of evil/ theDevil?

Isn't a lot of religion about Love vs Evil?

There's indigenous tribes around the world who all share the faith of a greater being. Do you just put that down to coincidence?

 

[£1.99]

Is it perhaps that the Bible is so difficult to read particularly the old testament that puts people off religion?
https://youtu.be/kzb1ApJI5d0

 

[Wilko]

Just say your closet and most loved one was in some sort of danger.

Would you hope for them to be okay?

Of course I would hope, my point was that if god only answers those that pray or ask for help but would happily sit back and let those who do not ask for help suffer then I cannot see how god is good.

 

[AK74]

I'm going to let Lewis Dunk explain it best:

 

[Kneon Light]

I'm coming back to this because you never did expain yourself. I made quite a lot of points, some of which were checkable facts, others that were reasoned vewpoints (explained) and others that were inferences from personal experience. It is simply illogical to dismiss 'pretty much everything' I wrote with no explanation. It is gobsmackingly arrogant.

You disagree with Russell's interpretation of the evolution of religion, right? Well of course you do because presumably religion was handed to humans by god. You reject the idea that humans have a psychological need to believe in things? Well of course you do because you believe that Christianity is literally the truth, and unquestioning belief is an article of faith. So it was pretty much pointless your responding to my post, wasn't it? It matters not how many pages of evidence and reasoning I give you. The only thing that matters is what you believe.

But you are insufficiently honest to admit it. Instead you use the typical weasel words of a card carrying christian - blandly stating you disagree, as if this has some sort of intrinsic value (god-given value, presumably) that defenestrates the entirety of my post.

This attitude, if I might say so, is a hallmark of too many religious adherents (a point I have explained previously); some of you seem to think you can believe in anything, and inspired by that you then slap down reasoned argument, then end the discussion. I think that is arrogance and intellectual nobbery of the lowest order. Not an attractive combination. It may be how you'd treat your kids if they asked why they can't stay up late, but it is not how you speak to an adult who is attempting to engage with ideas.

Anyway, that sounds a bit pompous so I'll drag this back to a more earthly level: you're an annoying prat and I should have simply invited you to sod off

You may have noticed most of my posts are quite short - this is largely because I am incredibly busy with a lot going on in my life.
I asked you a question about one part of your post (which you answered).
I replied to a few other posts too but then went to bed and work today - hope that's ok with you?

I am allowed to disagree with whatever I want without having to write an essay in reply.

It's a shame people like you cannot have a discussion without resorting to insults.
I have been nothing but respectful toward you and do not deserve the rudeness you throw back in reply

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You may have noticed most of my posts are quite short - this is largely because I am incredibly busy with a lot going on in my life.
I asked you a question about one part of your post (which you answered).
I replied to a few other posts too but then went to bed and work today - hope that's ok with you?

I am allowed to disagree with whatever I want without having to write an essay in reply.

It's a shame people like you cannot have a discussion without resorting to insults.
I have been nothing but respectful toward you and do not deserve the rudeness you throw back in reply

Pah! There was no discussion. Others posting on the thread also asked you to explain yourself. By dismissing my post without any explanation it is you that's being rude. I have simply decided I'm not letting it go quite as easily as you might have expected. If you are too busy to engage, fair enough. Don't engage then. Some of us were having a nuanced conversation about religion. If you aren't interested in engaging, don't bother. But one liner gainsaying is the sort of thing we expect from PPF!

You own question was stupid, and yet I carefully replied. You didn't.

 

[Saunders]

I might be wrong but doesn't Christianity preach about the existence of evil/ theDevil?

Isn't a lot of religion about Love vs Evil?

There's indigenous tribes around the world who all share the faith of a greater being. Do you just put that down to coincidence?

It didnt really until the Romans got involved and decided to up their game and to get rid of the annoying pagans. The old devil worship label worked well. But wasnt mentioned in the early bible.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It didnt really until the Romans got involved and decided to up their game and to get rid of the annoying pagans. The old devil worship label worked well. But wasnt mentioned in the early bible.

The devil is mentioned in the very first book of the bible. Offering children as sacrifices in Canaan is pretty evil too, in Deuteronomy.

 

[Saunders]

Jesus and the Pharisees in Israel were not ficticious characters. They are documented in Roman history, and accepted as real life by classic scholars.

That is nothing to do with the church. Nobody is asking you to believe the religious claims, but history.

You have to be a bit careful here Constantine was the Roman emperor that edited the New Testament because he decided to adopt christianity. Since the person you quoted mentioned Leviticus its good to remind that he wrote that you shouldn't eat pig. Now since the Roman army pretty much existed on pig meat that got nicely overriden in the New Testament. That is just one example of how the new bible was written for the new Christians by a Roman Emperor. As has been said before history is written by the victors.

 

[Saunders]

The devil is mentioned in the very first book of the bible. Offering children as sacrifices in Canaan is pretty evil too, in Deuteronomy.

There is certainly a lot of evil in the old testament yes even when its for the supposed good but it wasnt till later they created a devil. Lucifer actualy means angel of light or the light bringer. They needed a way to get people to move away from pagan beliefs and the horned devil was born to punish and move them away from local healers and believers of things like the Green Man.

 

[Megazone]

Of course I would hope, my point was that if god only answers those that pray or ask for help but would happily sit back and let those who do not ask for help suffer then I cannot see how god is good.

I definitely see your point and I also disagree with the idea that God is selective with how and who will receive divine intervention.I just don't think life works like that, There's an awful lot more to it than how religions preach spirituality and that includes the messages these Prophets apparently preached. But I wouldn't right off the idea of a creator of this earth based on a few silly ideas a manipulated religion has created.

Have you heard about 'God's thumbprint'?

 

[Wardy's twin]

I mean things like love thy neighbour, fidelity in marriage, forgiveness, unconditional love, and so on. QUOTE]

You don't need Christ for any of these. They are core Human values that existed long before Christ and will go on a lot longer than Christianity.

Not sure about that...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You have to be a bit careful here Constantine was the Roman emperor that edited the New Testament because he decided to adopt christianity. Since the person you quoted mentioned Leviticus its good to remind that he wrote that you shouldn't eat pig. Now since the Roman army pretty much existed on pig meat that got nicely overriden in the New Testament. That is just one example of how the new bible was written for the new Christians by a Roman Emperor. As has been said before history is written by the victors.

The books of the bible were decided by the council Synod at Loadicea in 363, after Constatine died. It is written in Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.

 

[One Love]

not really an endless debate, more making the simple point the debate is done: Bad Things refute the existance of God.

Either the debate is done or the proof is so beyond our comprehension that we can't possibly even scratch the surface.

IF there is a god that created everyone and everything why does anyone then assume us, the god's mere creations, could possibly understand him/her/it? Surely logic tells you that would be impossible.

It's like trying to understand a Sunway TaihuLight with an ENIAC to the power of a billion.

 

[Blue3]

Karl Marx said Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

 

[pastafarian]

The ten commandments were given to Moses 1446 years before Christ.

What year (approx) did Noah set off in his boat?

Free will. He doesn't interfere unless he is asked.

Why did your god ignore the prayers of the people who didn’t want to die when he killed 200,000 people in the 2004 tsunami.
What was free will about those deaths?

 

[One Love]

Why did your god ignore the prayers of the people who didn’t want to die when he killed 200,000 people in the 2004 tsunami.

Maybe you're a god?

You claim to know what 200,000 people didn't want.