Racism And The Cumberbatch Conundrum

[Stato]

Firstly Hove wanderer. I wasnt offended. I questioned him about it.
He claims it is to show that he is against religion, whereas, anybody can see the plain reference to one faith.

This isn't the intent of pastafarianism. Its simply a play on words to describe supporters of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (No really). It started as a satire on the promotion of intelligent design:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

http://www.venganza.org/about/

 

[Mo Gosfield]

So where do we all sit in this debate? Are we, by discussing this, taking a stand against this kind of nonsense our are we contributing to its perpetuation?

Surely the media can howl with indignation as much as they like, but if we just ignore them then surely eventually they would give up.

Its a difficult one.
As I said before, we have all been brainwashed into this state of absolute sensitivity...walking on eggshells etc. To those of us of a certain age, we have had to condition ourselves into not using certain words or phrases, that we were brought up on and used in everyday language. Very occasionally we forget and those, that apparently know better, pounce on us and correct us. We are chided like small children for our indiscretion. It is a heinous crime. As you say, it makes good copy for the press ( many of whom have long since jumped onboard the good ship of PC ) and any slip of the tongue by a public figure is fair game.
Will apathy result in less publicity of this ridiculous state we all find ourselves in? I doubt it. Personally, I think it is too far gone. Too many now stand to gain out of it. The agenda is firmly in place. The PC brigade have taken over and driven us to the precipice of paranoia and some have already jumped. They are now relying on outrage to fan the flames and fuel the debate, so I guess that my ranting and raving about the nonsense of it all is just perpetuating it.
I don't know whether I am a dinosaur or whether many feel the same. All I know is that I feel that we are being hijacked and held to ransom and our behaviour is being changed by clever manipulation and psychology. They have clearly studied the history of the 20th century and seen how a nation can be influenced.

 

[Nibble]

This is a total non issue. Some journo was banging on about it in The Guardian today and bought up his ancestors involvement in the slave trade. Why? It's nothing to do with him. There's not a white person in the western world who hasn't benefited from the slave trade. Bag of dicks.

 

[Simster]

still waiting for your answer , I'd be genuinely interested to know your views , on people born here of foreign parents, not half and half,but English born of foreign parents and where you feel allegiances should lie, and the subsequent effects on social cohesion.

I don't really have a view. Most people I know find themselves torn, but it's a personal choice. This tiresome, angry insistence that such people absolutely should feel they are of a distinctly different nation than that of their own parents is pointless and unfair. That will come over time regardless. Nearly all black and Asian 2nd generation people I've ever met have an allegiance to this country but most also feel an affinity with their parent's nation too. By the third generation (as most black people are I should think) they are as English minded as you or me. Certainly by the fourth, when the first generation have all passed away.

I just can't get that agitated about it, and that's because I'm a proud Englishman. We're a proper country. This partisan "Everyone look at me!!! I'm half <whatever>" behaviour (when they're not) is the sort of nonsense usually reserved for noddy countries (either with low populations like Ireland and Scotland or with tin-pot international standing like Bangladesh) with their slavish devotion to the craic on St Paddy's day or celebrating Burns night. To me, plastic paddies and och-aye "proud Scots" who insist on wearing a kilt to a black tie event even though everyone assumed they'd been educated at Eton and grew up in rural Oxon, or those who furiously wave at the cricket the Banglashi flag they bought at Romford market and actually only go there 4 weeks every two years and come back regaling us of how great it is because people clean their relatives houses for 2p an hour are little short of embarrassing themselves.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

You believe what you want. This type of thing happens regularly in schools.

I also work in a school and to suggest they happen "regularly" is questionable. Maybe they happen in your wife's school but that does not mean they happen in all schools. A lot of the myths about the "PC gone mad" in schools are utter rubbish. Oh and FYI the infants in my school can sing ba ba black sheep too

 

[T.G]

Unless you're a f@cking rainbow why would you want to be called coloured? It's not middle class guilt (I grew up in Whitehawk) it's black people's preference. I suspect if they went around calling us pinkys we would soon pipe up. As for the comment about John Barns, people saying he should play for Jamaica were probably intending to be racists, those saying the same about Sterling a probably doing so from a more enlightened perspective. Its really not that difficult to respect others and their wishes is it

 

[seagulls99]

Isn't every single person on the planet coloured?

 

[bravohotelalpha]

Isn't every single person on the planet coloured?

Yes

For anyone who is interested, pretty good explanation on BBC newsbeat website which discusses the issue in relation to racial segregation etc

 

[User removed 4]

I don't really have a view. Most people I know find themselves torn, but it's a personal choice. This tiresome, angry insistence that such people absolutely should feel they are of a distinctly different nation than that of their own parents is pointless and unfair. That will come over time regardless. Nearly all black and Asian 2nd generation people I've ever met have an allegiance to this country but most also feel an affinity with their parent's nation too. By the third generation (as most black people are I should think) they are as English minded as you or me. Certainly by the fourth, when the first generation have all passed away.

I just can't get that agitated about it, and that's because I'm a proud Englishman. We're a proper country. This partisan "Everyone look at me!!! I'm half <whatever>" behaviour (when they're not) is the sort of nonsense usually reserved for noddy countries (either with low populations like Ireland and Scotland or with tin-pot international standing like Bangladesh) with their slavish devotion to the craic on St Paddy's day or celebrating Burns night. To me, plastic paddies and och-aye "proud Scots" who insist on wearing a kilt to a black tie event even though everyone assumed they'd been educated at Eton and grew up in rural Oxon, or those who furiously wave at the cricket the Banglashi flag they bought at Romford market and actually only go there 4 weeks every two years and come back regaling us of how great it is because people clean their relatives houses for 2p an hour are little short of embarrassing themselves.

Sorry but I just don't agree with you , your assertions about us being a 'proper country' may have held water before the days of mass immigration and confused national identity, I don't think it does now ,I also think your point about blacks and Asians needs to be clearer , like it or not , the Sikhs and Hindus have integrated pretty well although you will still see 4th generation Indians supporting India at cricket , I'm sorry but that indicates to me that at best they have divided loyalties , I'd bet my bottom dollar that if this country was seriously in the shit, 1939 style , there would be a mass discovery that they were Indian after all and that's where they'd head for, as for Muslims , I'm sure you've met people in your professional capacity who say what you claim, I'll post a video of my hometown which I think gives the lie to it, all in all I think the West Indians are the ones who feel most British , although my ex wife's friend (black, Jamaican descent)who got upset when my five year old asked where she came from , and when told England, said she didn't look like it , proceeded to tell us she supported Jamaica in the World Cup, and then Nigeria after them, I just think your views are naive, it's not meant as a personal dig , so don't take it as one.

 

[piersa]

I also work in a school and to suggest they happen "regularly" is questionable. Maybe they happen in your wife's school but that does not mean they happen in all schools. A lot of the myths about the "PC gone mad" in schools are utter rubbish. Oh and FYI the infants in my school can sing ba ba black sheep too

Oh and fyi, that must be mean there are different things going on in different schools. Shock horror.

 

[daveinprague]

Oh and fyi, that must be mean there are different things going on in different schools. Shock horror.

So, maybe not so 'regularly'?

Some of these stories seem to me to be created in order to win some sort of 'debate' on a forum, to prove 'pc has gone mad' etc. When you look into them, they tend to bollocks.

 

[Soulman]

Its a difficult one.
As I said before, we have all been brainwashed into this state of absolute sensitivity...walking on eggshells etc. To those of us of a certain age, we have had to condition ourselves into not using certain words or phrases, that we were brought up on and used in everyday language. Very occasionally we forget and those, that apparently know better, pounce on us and correct us. We are chided like small children for our indiscretion. It is a heinous crime. As you say, it makes good copy for the press ( many of whom have long since jumped onboard the good ship of PC ) and any slip of the tongue by a public figure is fair game.
Will apathy result in less publicity of this ridiculous state we all find ourselves in? I doubt it. Personally, I think it is too far gone. Too many now stand to gain out of it. The agenda is firmly in place. The PC brigade have taken over and driven us to the precipice of paranoia and some have already jumped. They are now relying on outrage to fan the flames and fuel the debate, so I guess that my ranting and raving about the nonsense of it all is just perpetuating it.
I don't know whether I am a dinosaur or whether many feel the same. All I know is that I feel that we are being hijacked and held to ransom and our behaviour is being changed by clever manipulation and psychology. They have clearly studied the history of the 20th century and seen how a nation can be influenced.

Good post.

 

[GOM]

When is it going to be understood that wordism is not the same as racism. Just because you use a 'wrong' word doesn't mean you are racist. I think a new crime of wordism is in order.

 

[piersa]

So, maybe not so 'regularly'?

Some of these stories seem to me to be created in order to win some sort of 'debate' on a forum, to prove 'pc has gone mad' etc. When you look into them, they tend to bollocks.

or an inconvenient truth, but I'm you are very familiar with the "bollocks" aspect of life.

 

[daveinprague]

lol@inconvenient truth's...

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Oh and fyi, that must be mean there are different things going on in different schools. Shock horror.

Then why make such generalised statements? Saying things like "This type of thing happens regularly in schools" (in regards to the black pen issue) when they really don't, leaves you open to people who actually work in schools to tell you you're probably wrong. You're obviously trying to make a point re "PC gone mad" and schools by begrudging the fact your wife can't sing a nursery rhyme where she works but you don't acknowledge it may just be at her school and instead you imply that it is across the nation that this farce is occurring. Well let me put your mind at ease, most of the myths you hear about schools not being able to perform the nativity or being able to use certain coloured crayons are all lies cooked up by the media. Infact I believe The Sun is actually acredited with the whole "children not being able to perform the nativity? It's PC gone mad" myth.

 

[Questions]

Honestly it's true, unless you work in teaching you will never understand how kids will try to get teachers in to trouble.

Stop telling tales.

 

[pastafarian]

can certain people please stop denouncing my religion......thanks in advance!

 

[Questions]

I'm not on about the people who are 'half this or half that' I'm on about the people who are born here of foreign parents and then decide that they owe more allegiance to the country that their parents came from.

That's probably to do with how their parents have bought them up and influenced them.
My mum was Italian, my dad English, and being born here I support England in everything...........in the World Cup ...until they are out and then I cheer on Italy. I always want Italy when they are playing anyone other than England though.

If you're born here but with two foreign parents I can see the dilemma.

 

[User removed 4]

That's probably to do with how their parents have bought them up and influenced them. My mum was Italian, my dad English but I support England in everything...........in the World Cup ...until they are out and then I cheer on Italy. I always want Italy when they are playing anyone other than England.

And so you should , I wouldn't have any problem with that at all, my sister lives in France and is married to a Frenchman, she encourages her kids to cheer for England when on to etc, but I'm not naive enough to think they are going to be anything but French mainly, but i know people half Filipino, half Italian both born and brought up here, both support Italy and one active supports anyone playing England, absolutely ****ing crazy.