Quality of refereeing

[drew]

Have to reiterate that, despite all the comments, referees get what they deserve. They are the authority on the pitch but they allow to much to go. For example at corners there is always jostling between players. If the ref feels he needs to do something about it then instead of talking and issuing a verbal warning, book them. Any shirt pulling should be mandatory yellow. There will be far more yellow cards in the short term but the players will soon get the message, as would their clubs when they are having to deal with bans.

Referees should command respect from players and managers but they need to earn it. Stop trying to be mates with the players and take the softly softly route.

 

[coagulantwolf]

Have to reiterate that, despite all the comments, referees get what they deserve. They are the authority on the pitch but they allow to much to go. For example at corners there is always jostling between players. If the ref feels he needs to do something about it then instead of talking and issuing a verbal warning, book them. Any shirt pulling should be mandatory yellow. There will be far more yellow cards in the short term but the players will soon get the message, as would their clubs when they are having to deal with bans.

Referees should command respect from players and managers but they need to earn it. Stop trying to be mates with the players and take the softly softly route.

Fully agree with this comment. I feel for the standards of refs to increase, in the short term there could be the potential of loads of penalties/yellow cards/red cards etc, however clubs and players would very soon stop doing it all and start getting on with the football.

 

[Baldseagull]

I am pretty sure that the phrase "in the referees opinion" is in the laws quite a lot. In effect this means it is only offside, a penalty, a free kick if the ref thinks it is, and so a ref is always right as it is his opinion that counts. I don't want that to change, I like that the Sunday league play with the same conditions roughly as the Premier League, I am against goal line technology for the same reason.

 

[drew]

I am pretty sure that the phrase "in the referees opinion" is in the laws quite a lot. In effect this means it is only offside, a penalty, a free kick if the ref thinks it is, and so a ref is always right as it is his opinion that counts. I don't want that to change, I like that the Sunday league play with the same conditions roughly as the Premier League, I am against goal line technology for the same reason.

The referee isn't always right however, right or wrong, his decision is, and should be, final.

As for comparing Sunday League with the Premier League, do your officials have the same level of training and do the assistants have a radio link to the ref and electronic buzzers on their flags? The basic rules are the same but that is where it probably ends.

 

[Baldseagull]

The referee isn't always right however, right or wrong, his decision is, and should be, final.

As for comparing Sunday League with the Premier League, do your officials have the same level of training and do the assistants have a radio link to the ref and electronic buzzers on their flags? The basic rules are the same but that is where it probably ends.

The method of communication between the referee and his assistants is different in higher leagues, but that is it, they could use semaphore and post it notes, but it is still the Referee and his assistants.
The Referee in the Premier League has worked his way up from Sunday League, to County League and so on over many years and has taken further training along the way. At all levels the referee has the same basic kit and relies on his eyes and ears, and his assistants.
Video Ref could not be done across the whole of F.A. games, so for me it should not happen anywhere, and I feel the same about goal line technology.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I know that seems shoite to some but football hasn't always been played the way we see it today. Who knows what they may end up doing? If anything! I just know that something needs to be done before the next, or the next generation of players accept the cheating way as the norm. I still have faith we're not quite there yet.[/QUOTE]


Football has always been played the same way...twenty two players trying to get the ball in the opposition goal. How was it played before? On horseback?...Underwater?....Everyone running backwards on one leg? There is this attitude that football has been re-invented in recent years. Its a new game, different from before. Far superior. Look at the old film...its laughable. Heavy pitches, sodden leather balls, big boots, goalies in jumpers, no pattern of play, everyone chasing after the ball like schoolkids.
Football has changed. Grounds are much improved. Pitches are much better. Kit is lighter. Players are fitter. We can all watch far more football in the comfort of our homes. Its instantly accessible.
What hasn't changed is the skill ( or lack of it ) on show and the ability of footballers to disappoint and cheat the paying public. This gamesmanship or cheating isn't new. Its been going on for years. When players were paid similar wages to the normal working man, they had to find new ways of increasing their money. This they did by betting for or against themselves and then ' rigging ' games. In the sixties, England internationals were banned from the game for match-fixing. In more recent years, certain Liverpool and Wimbledon players were caught red-handed taking bribes but somehow got away with it. With the onset of online betting, players were quick to help rig markets on first corner/booking etc.
Players have been trying to take advantage of officials for years. Its just everyone sees it now, up close, in glorious technicolour. Where the game is deteriorating is in players attitudes. Now they don't care. They are so pampered, so protected, so well rewarded, they are like kids who have everything they have asked for...spoilt brats. The game doesn't owe them a living. Take it or leave it. I'll just take the easy and lazy way out, by diving. I know I'll get a penalty. No point in staying on my feet and trying to demonstrate a bit of skill. Why do I need to do that.
Cheating is the norm and has been for some time. Its just getting worse because we have made it easier for them. Players don't have to show any responsibility. They can make mistake after mistake but still earn more than a multi-national director in charge of thousands of people. No one holds them accountable. The managers get the sack and the referees get the blame.

 

[mikeyjh]

Don't forget "But he's the last man, Jonathan, so it's got to be a red", and "Well, there was contact, so by rights, that should be a penalty"

Aaagghhgh, don't mention contact. Or ex-players telling us that the knee high, two footed challenge was okay, because there was a static electric connection between his left sock and the ball.....

 

[tubby]

I believe the way to stop some of the malaise in player's behaviour is to have a panel of experts review the game and award points for different misdemeanours that were not punished by the referee, or given the wrong punishment. Then if a team reach a certain number of points they lose a league point. Having lost a league point the number of points allowable in the next match is reduced and then a league point is lost if they reach that level and so on. By doing this it will stop the dissent and the cheating because league points are at risk.

 

[drew]

The method of communication between the referee and his assistants is different in higher leagues, but that is it, they could use semaphore and post it notes, but it is still the Referee and his assistants.
The Referee in the Premier League has worked his way up from Sunday League, to County League and so on over many years and has taken further training along the way. At all levels the referee has the same basic kit and relies on his eyes and ears, and his assistants.
Video Ref could not be done across the whole of F.A. games, so for me it should not happen anywhere, and I feel the same about goal line technology.

Sorry, I was being a little facetious! I agree with what you say about video refs. I do not want to see games stopped pending another referee sitting and watching a reply but with GLT, I think the system they have is warranted. Fouls and handballs etc are an opinion but the ball crossing the line is not and anything that helps the referees in that regard I support. It will probably never get to Sunday league level but eventually will filter down through the professional game.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I'd be in favour of a massive crackdown on dissent, personally. I'm fed up with watching the likes of John Terry and Wayne Rooney screaming abuse, getting so close to the referee's face, he's probably showering the poor bloke with spit in the process. Yeah, refs make mistakes, well here's news for you, John Terry: so do you, and nobody jumps in your face when you've scored an own goal to tell you what a ****ing tosser you are (not on the pitch, at any rate).

None of that should be permitted (well, I mean, if you read the Laws, it isn't, but it's never enforced in professional football). I'm not a big rugby fan, but there's something quite impressive about the way referees are respected there, no matter what's gone on.

So I'd insist all referees have to be addressed as "Sir" by footballers , I'd dish out instant yellows for the slightest hint of dissent, foul & abusive language, or surrounding the referee, and bring back the ten yard penalty that briefly existed in the Football League until the poor little footballers decided they didn't like it being penalised for breaking the rules.

Sure: we'd get a few games at the start where it ended eight a side, but even footballers would soon learn where the boundaries lie.

Actually, thinking about rugby: I wonder if miking the refs up so that the crowd can hear their rationale for decisions would work? Perhaps that might also crack down on abusive behaviour, as I can't imagine even an overpaid pillock like Terry would want 45,000 people to hear him calling a referee on £75,000 per year a "****ing useless ****".

 

[JCL666]

Actually, thinking about rugby: I wonder if miking the refs up so that the crowd can hear their rationale for decisions would work? Perhaps that might also crack down on abusive behaviour, as I can't imagine even an overpaid pillock like Terry would want 45,000 people to hear him calling a referee on £75,000 per year a "****ing useless ****".

I think miking them up would be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ruNosLNOE



TBH I have no idea why football hasn't given refs the same protection as they do in rugby.

 

[Gwylan]

TBH I have no idea why football hasn't given refs the same protection as they do in rugby.

It's a completely different ethos. Kids learn the ref's decision is final and can't be argued with when they start playing at 6 - watch a mini rugby match, everyone just gets on with it.

In football, they don't learn that. I watch kids' matches occasionally when I'm walking the dog and there's constant moaning from the parents from the sidelines - if the kids learn from an early age that it's all right to berate the ref, that's what they'll carry on doing

 

[mikeyjh]

TBH I have no idea why football hasn't given refs the same protection as they do in rugby.

Much as I love rugby, I think many of those within the support who have been holier than thou about 'Wendy Ball' for a long time (Brian Moore for one) have their heads in the sand, rugby is heading in the same direction at a right old rate of knots. Watch any pro game now and you'll see plenty of appealing for offences and a good deal of dissent also. Sad to see, but it's out there.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I think miking them up would be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ruNosLNOE



TBH I have no idea why football hasn't given refs the same protection as they do in rugby.

Given the penchant that TV companies have shown in recent years for fly-on-the-wall documentaries, it's a little surprising this experiment hasn't been repeated, perhaps with a referee a little less officious than David Elleray was. I bet the players would tone their behaviour right down rather than risk being shown on TV audibly calling the linesman a ****ing cheating wanker.

 

[Gwylan]

Much as I love rugby, I think many of those within the support who have been holier than thou about 'Wendy Ball' for a long time (Brian Moore for one) have their heads in the sand, rugby is heading in the same direction at a right old rate of knots. Watch any pro game now and you'll see plenty of appealing for offences and a good deal of dissent also. Sad to see, but it's out there.

I watch rugby regularly and I can't recall any incidences of dissent, not ones unpunished anyway. I do agree though that players are beginning to appeal for odd offences ("He held me, ref"), back in the good old days, that would have been settled with a quick punch when the ref wasn't looking,

However, I watch a lot of mini rugby at my daughter's club and at that level, ref's decisions are accepted without a murmur

 

[mikeyjh]

I watch rugby regularly and I can't recall any incidences of dissent, not ones unpunished anyway. I do agree though that players are beginning to appeal for odd offences ("He held me, ref"), back in the good old days, that would have been settled with a quick punch when the ref wasn't looking,

However, I watch a lot of mini rugby at my daughter's club and at that level, ref's decisions are accepted without a murmur

Okay, it's probably not dissent per se, it's head shaking and making clear that you're not happy with a decision without actually saying something to the ref. Don't get me wrong, it's not in the same galaxy as in football, and I really hope it stays that way, but I'm not convinced.

Glad to hear that it's same old in the juniors, how it should be.

 

[drew]

I watch rugby regularly and I can't recall any incidences of dissent, not ones unpunished anyway. I do agree though that players are beginning to appeal for odd offences ("He held me, ref"), back in the good old days, that would have been settled with a quick punch when the ref wasn't looking,

However, I watch a lot of mini rugby at my daughter's club and at that level, ref's decisions are accepted without a murmur

I agree but the only real reason that happens is that any sign of dissent and it is punished on the pitch, sometimes at the cost of another 10yrds for a pen which can make it easier to put points on the board. They tried it in football and it was a joke because the ref's didn't really buy into it. In all the time it was allowed, I probably only saw about two or three instances when it was done yet time and time again, players would still harangue and surround the ref. So again, if the refs exercised the power they had then the dissent would have been considerably reduced.

 

[jackanada]

I can see why the FA want to avoid the carnage of enforcing the use of yellow cards to punish dissent. While I think it would be worthwhile they could go another effective route.

Every time they have a go at the ref he can make a mark next to their name in his notebook, or more marks if particularly ****ish
1 mark - have to watch a 1 hour fa video on respect immediately after the game.
2 marks - also fined a days wages.
3 marks - fined a weeks wages.
4 marks - 2 weeks wages and a 1 match ban.
5 marks - 4 weeks wages and a 3 match ban.
5+ - tribunal decision.

Plus totting up penalties for repeat offenders.

 

[drew]

I can see why the FA want to avoid the carnage of enforcing the use of yellow cards to punish dissent. While I think it would be worthwhile they could go another effective route.

Every time they have a go at the ref he can make a mark next to their name in his notebook, or more marks if particularly ****ish
1 mark - have to watch a 1 hour fa video on respect immediately after the game.
2 marks - also fined a days wages.
3 marks - fined a weeks wages.
4 marks - 2 weeks wages and a 1 match ban.
5 marks - 4 weeks wages and a 3 match ban.
5+ - tribunal decision.

Plus totting up penalties for repeat offenders.

lol

 

[wakeytom]

Nice to see a completely wrong player sent off today - there should be some obvious differences - 1 having orange hair, the other not