Quality of refereeing

[glasfryn]

If all decisions are made according to the rules of football then it shouldn't matter. Have three independent non footballers sit separately in adjudication with replay screens and 2 of the three must agree the decision for it to be upheld.
I'm not certain when they would be called upon, maybe when the ref calls for the video ref as in rugby.
Maybe (and I know this won't be popular and I'm just throwing it out there) the respective Managers could "challenge" a decision (max three times) as in the NFL.

I know that seems shoite to some but football hasn't always been played the way we see it today. Who knows what they may end up doing? If anything! I just know that something needs to be done before the next, or the next generation of players accept the cheating way as the norm. I still have faith we're not quite there yet.

all from NSC ............................er no that won't work will it

 

[30209]

what's worse than the quality of refereeing is the incessant whinging from people about the quality of referring

Often this whinging is completely biased and misplaced.

But yes, referees make mistakes. They're human, just like the rest of us and just like the rest of us they make mistakes when doing their job.

would you make a better referee? if so, great, please go ahead and do it.

only paranoid conspiracy theorists think they are deliberately biased so just treat it like another random factor like a wicked deflection, the weather or a good shot rebounding off the crossbar.

in short get over it.

 

[Everest]

Is awful at the moment, time after time deciding the game, especially in the premier league where they are meant to be the best. Just seen the tottingham game and Kane was going down before the arm even went on him, and after the 5 mins of added on time.

You can't use that excuse.
It's a minimum time, not exact time. It's been said time and time again but some people still can't understand it. The ref can play as much time as he deems fit.
The penalty was given before the 5 mins were up anyway, so it has to be taken (even if there's a 3 hour delay)

 

[somerset]

Ttt

 

[JCL666]

Refereeing is made more difficult by

-players, managers and fans seeing things through their own affiliation,
-players/fans/pundits/journalists trying to re-referee the game without truly acknowledging the laws of the game as they currently are
-the money in the game making winning more important than playing fairly leading to players and so on trying to get away with whatever they can
-fans/managers not wanting to criticise their players, so criticising refs
-pundits/fans/managers not accepting that if you want to eliminate diving, you have to eliminate flamboyant falls and until they stop some genuine fouls will not be given and fouled players will be booked for diving,
-fans/managers wanting to get away with everything while their opponents are punished for everything, severely.
-an increasing anti-authority feeling in society being reflected in football - it's not the players fault they broke the laws of the game, it's the ref who should be criticised for punishing the player accordingly, much like it's the speed cameras fault it collects so many fines and not the fault of the speeding driver.-Every referee is expected to make the same right decision in every similar situation and still somehow please a group of pundits/journalist who each have different ideas of what is the right decision.
-The same thing that people accuse with brighton players being scape-goated (we decide the refereeing is bad, so look at every decision and rather than accepting until proven otherwise, we decide it's wrong first and wait for the ref to be proven right - we frequently hear commentators question a decision first and wait for a couple of replays before accepting the ref made the right call)
-Refs being human beings who will make mistakes while generally doing a good job, having a poor day at the office, and having a poor run of form.

This is a great summary.

I think the point you make about "the laws of the game it's the ref who should be criticised" is excellent. There is a constant theme that players/managers/pundits continually harp on about. Stuff like "he's entitled to go down"

Fans would like to see players being honest and also not acting aggressively toward the officials.


Very tough job that refs do and they have little or no help from the players.

 

[mikeyjh]

This is a great summary.

I think the point you make about "the laws of the game it's the ref who should be criticised" is excellent. There is a constant theme that players/managers/pundits continually harp on about. Stuff like "he's entitled to go down"

Fans would like to see players being honest and also not acting aggressively toward the officials.


Very tough job that refs do and they have little or no help from the players.

There's loads like this isn't there. "he's raised his arms , so it's a red", "it's hit his arm so it's handball" etc etc. Loads of fans just lap it up when it suits as well, amazes me how many really don't know the rules, which are remarkably short and simple.

I think the refs could be helped, or help themselves - I'd like to see, for instance, a penalty given AND a player booked for diving. So we say that yes it was a foul but you dived as well, or "made a meal of it" as the pundits would say.

 

[JCL666]

There's loads like this isn't there. "he's raised his arms , so it's a red", "it's hit his arm so it's handball" etc etc. Loads of fans just lap it up when it suits as well, amazes me how many really don't know the rules, which are remarkably short and simple.

I think the refs could be helped, or help themselves - I'd like to see, for instance, a penalty given AND a player booked for diving. So we say that yes it was a foul but you dived as well, or "made a meal of it" as the pundits would say.

Definitely, like when they get a tap on the ear and they roll around in AGONY.

Plus I 'd like to see them penalised for things that they already should be booked for like pulling shirts in the penalty area at corners.


On the trailing leg thing really pisses me off.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Refereeing is made more difficult by

-players, managers and fans seeing things through their own affiliation,
-players/fans/pundits/journalists trying to re-referee the game without truly acknowledging the laws of the game as they currently are
-the money in the game making winning more important than playing fairly leading to players and so on trying to get away with whatever they can
-fans/managers not wanting to criticise their players, so criticising refs
-pundits/fans/managers not accepting that if you want to eliminate diving, you have to eliminate flamboyant falls and until they stop some genuine fouls will not be given and fouled players will be booked for diving,
-fans/managers wanting to get away with everything while their opponents are punished for everything, severely.
-an increasing anti-authority feeling in society being reflected in football - it's not the players fault they broke the laws of the game, it's the ref who should be criticised for punishing the player accordingly, much like it's the speed cameras fault it collects so many fines and not the fault of the speeding driver.-Every referee is expected to make the same right decision in every similar situation and still somehow please a group of pundits/journalist who each have different ideas of what is the right decision.
-The same thing that people accuse with brighton players being scape-goated (we decide the refereeing is bad, so look at every decision and rather than accepting until proven otherwise, we decide it's wrong first and wait for the ref to be proven right - we frequently hear commentators question a decision first and wait for a couple of replays before accepting the ref made the right call)
-Refs being human beings who will make mistakes while generally doing a good job, having a poor day at the office, and having a poor run of form.

Is the correct answer, its now almost an impossible job the higher up the pyramid you go. Mistakes will be made, as everyone makes them but due to the constant bashing of officials by managers this season, referees are now CONSTANTLY under scrutiny, more so than ever before. The treatment and abuse is becoming worse and worse too and it starts at the top. I referee both senior and kids football, and both are now as bad as each other for the abuse/language used against me - most of the cautions this season I have given have been for dissent. Its no wonder we are beginning to have a shortage of referees at grassroots in this country, people see the level of stick we get and think "I dont want that", so they dont.

We referee because we enjoy football, we arent there to ruin a game or anything and without referees, you wont have competitive football. Something will have to give soon, as it simply getting worse and worse.

Back on topic, I wouldnt say the quality is getting worse, its just that its being more and more scrutinised, so you will always find more talking points.

If you want to constantly slate referees, I offer you something - visit the Sussex FA website, pay the money to do the cause and referee kids game to help at grassroots level - if you think you can do better that is as well.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I entirely agree with Drew when he says referee's should be required to attend a post match interview with the press just as managers have to do. It's amazing how being publicly accountable can impact on performance (unless you are a politician).

Can it though? I mean, does having a couple of cameras stuck in his face and Gary Lineker asking inane questions like "How disappointed are you with that performance, Harry?" make Redknapp any better a manager? Or make him more honest about it?

I see where you're coming from, and occasionally it might be nice to hear the referee go "You know what, I simply missed it", but I'm not sure what it would achieve. Everything they want to say, they could easily say to the managers and players if the FA let them. Then again, if some poor referee decided he should apologise after a mistake, he'd end up with (say) Jose Mourinho haranguing the FA for a replay, on the basis that even the referee knows he got it wrong.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I think you need to differentiate between refereeing decisions which are open to interpretation and those which are just plain incorrect.

As others have said, I have little sympathy for penalties and non penalty decisions. When players are constantly trying con the ref by going down too easily ("forcing him to make a decision") they can't complain when they don't get them - I'm pretty sure this evens itself out over the season. You only ever hear managers, players etc moan and complain when things don't go their way. The press (especially tv) are also highly culpable replaying the same incident thousands of times and over analysing things in print.

Where I do have a problem is where decisions are just plain wrong - the Rob Green handling outside the area is a classic example. This simply should not happen, although these things seem to still be pretty rare.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

There's loads like this isn't there. "he's raised his arms , so it's a red", "it's hit his arm so it's handball" etc etc. Loads of fans just lap it up when it suits as well, amazes me how many really don't know the rules, which are remarkably short and simple.

I think the refs could be helped, or help themselves - I'd like to see, for instance, a penalty given AND a player booked for diving. So we say that yes it was a foul but you dived as well, or "made a meal of it" as the pundits would say.

Don't forget "But he's the last man, Jonathan, so it's got to be a red", and "Well, there was contact, so by rights, that should be a penalty"

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Plus I 'd like to see them penalised for things that they already should be booked for like pulling shirts in the penalty area at corners.

And that "innocently running across the ball" thing when they've just conceded a free kick and are trying to stop it being taken quickly whilst pretending they just happened to be running that way.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

And that "innocently running across the ball" thing when they've just conceded a free kick and are trying to stop it being taken quickly whilst pretending they just happened to be running that way.

At least it's plausible that they just MIGHT have been running that way. The one I hate more is when a Fk is given and a player picks up the ball, and trots away, nonchalantly dropping it 10 yards away from the incident. How can that possibly NOT be a yellow? He can't claim he ACCIDENTALLY picked it up!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

At least it's plausible that they just MIGHT have been running that way. The one I hate more is when a Fk is given and a player picks up the ball, and trots away, nonchalantly dropping it 10 yards away from the incident. How can that possibly NOT be a yellow? He can't claim he ACCIDENTALLY picked it up!

I liked the bloke on Saturday. The Albion put the ball out about three feet from the Birmingham corner flag in front of the East Stand. Blues player picks up ball, runs twenty yards up the pitch. Referee makes him take a few steps back five yards, before his run-up inevitably ensures he takes the throw in at about the same spot he's just been moved back from, twenty yards up the pitch from where it had gone out.

Then five minutes later makes Bruno move the ball back four feet to ensure a free kick is from the correct spot...

 

[severnside gull]

Can it though? I mean, does having a couple of cameras stuck in his face and Gary Lineker asking inane questions like "How disappointed are you with that performance, Harry?" make Redknapp any better a manager? Or make him more honest about it?

I see where you're coming from, and occasionally it might be nice to hear the referee go "You know what, I simply missed it", but I'm not sure what it would achieve. Everything they want to say, they could easily say to the managers and players if the FA let them. Then again, if some poor referee decided he should apologise after a mistake, he'd end up with (say) Jose Mourinho haranguing the FA for a replay, on the basis that even the referee knows he got it wrong.

Mourinho? Hmmmm........I'd forgotten about him. You're right of course

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The other refereeing highlight on Saturday was that moment in the second half when CMS was clearly fouled by the Blues defender climbing all over him. The whistle went. Then general astonishment and fury all around the Amex as he signalled for a Birmingham free kick. Moments later, it had somehow turned into an Albion free kick.

Can anybody tell me what the hell happened there? Did he change his mind, and if so, why (apart from the obvious "because he was wrong")? Or did he simply point his arm the wrong way by mistake and intend to award it to us all along? Bizarre.

 

[kevo]

I actually thought the ref on Saturday was excellent - best we've seen for a while. Can't think of a single bad decision - when was the last time that happened? Take a bow, Gary Sutton.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

I would make referees appear at press conferences as managers have to and justify their decisions. If managers have to be accountable, why not those in charge of the game? I would also use every aid available, such as the Video Ref used in Rugby League. There is much less arguing with refs in both forms of rugby. Sure, you still get bad performances, such as that by the ref in the Rugby World Cup that England won, where he did his level best to hand the match to Australia, but by and large decisions are accepted. Even in hockey, teams are allowed to challenge a certain number of Penalty Corner decisions.

 

[coagulantwolf]

I would bring in much more retrospective action. I don't get why the FA are so against it, they say they don't want to 're-referee' games and decisions, but really it helps. If you start bringing in retrospective action for diving for example, players would stop doing it. If a ref knows players are unlikely to dive because of the retrospective action (which should be harsh penalties), then it's one less thing they need to try and look out for.

I'd also bring in headsets like in rugby, and sin bins instantly when a team surrounds the ref. Simple, ref counts to 5, anyone still in his face is off for a 5 minute sin bin.

I think for an increase in overall referring standards, short term we need things like that. Yes, at the start we may suddenly see loads of players getting sin binned, banned or whatever, but at the end of the day they would very soon stop it all.

 

[drew]

The other refereeing highlight on Saturday was that moment in the second half when CMS was clearly fouled by the Blues defender climbing all over him. The whistle went. Then general astonishment and fury all around the Amex as he signalled for a Birmingham free kick. Moments later, it had somehow turned into an Albion free kick.

Can anybody tell me what the hell happened there? Did he change his mind, and if so, why (apart from the obvious "because he was wrong")? Or did he simply point his arm the wrong way by mistake and intend to award it to us all along? Bizarre.

I'm afraid it was just the obvious, he pointed the wrong way. Fair play to him for admitting the mistake. Could have made light of in post match tv interview but of course there wasn't one.