[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Baldseagull]

Does lead to the question why we've had little or no economic growth over the last few years with record high net migration figures circa 5/6/700000 ?

Because the positive effect was not enough to fully overcome the economic difficulties Covid and Brexit placed on us.
The riots have caused some foreign students planning on enrolling in UK universities to think again, so thanks for that added little hit to the economy, Farageists.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

Because the positive effect was not enough to fully overcome the economic difficulties Covid and Brexit placed on us.
The riots have caused some foreign students planning on enrolling in UK universities to think again, so thanks for that added little hit to the economy, Farageists.

You're really reaching. That article is deeply flawed. The idea that pre-brexit migration is comparable to post-brexit is laughable.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Your mentality of them v's us, you'll never reach middle ground or understanding of people's concerns with that attitude.

I do apologize.

And I'll apologize again I have it wrong.

You have experience of and understanding of redemption, perhaps?

 

[Jim in the West]

All the data quoted are outdated. Brexit gave us some sweeping changes to the migration system, and with the shock of COVID and inflation, a lot of pre-Brexit data is meaningless.

The OBR is working on 2024 data

 

[Motogull]

Crawley, Dingo, and who was the third?

Judging by his info sources, he would probably put Exeter in his satnat, so I don't think he can be included.

 

[beorhthelm]

- absolutely arrogant, but still true.

The poor fuckers who arrive on these shores have had very much the same experience as an established British citizen waiting for a minor operation.

Delays and cancellations, waiting months and years for decisions. Underfunded public services are at the root of all of these issues, and one of the main reasons for the underfunding is the fact that we are allowing larger businesses to be so cute with their tax avoidance that in some cases we’re paying them, even as they’re putting smaller British owned businesses out of business.

Blaming the poor fucker ahead of you in the queue for a public service is pointless, they’re as trapped by Britain’s lack of state resources as we are.

Edit: if anyone is actually interested and hasn’t already put me on ignore, there’s an interesting (if imperfect) book entitled Vassal State: How America runs Britain by a chap called Angus Hanton, which focuses specifically on America’s impact on our public finances, and which makes some fairly pointed observations.

It is dry in places, and veers into opinion in others, but is worth reading. It was recommended by somebody else on here, which is how I came to read it.

seems many assumptions made about what people's issues are, often around what they want their issues to be for their own political view. it occurs to me many sent down this week who are in jobs and running business might not be in any queue for public services. unless you are pregnant, elderly, sick or out of work your need for services is marginal. does John the young office clerk actually have a grievance against immigrants taking his place in NHS, which he has not current use of, or is he just a bit racist for the sake of it with no real cause?

 

[rogersix]

One more time I’ve been maintaining my clients properties for the last 20 years.
How is it a touch doing my job?

it's an ill wind,

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Because the positive effect was not enough to fully overcome the economic difficulties Covid and Brexit placed on us.
The riots have caused some foreign students planning on enrolling in UK universities to think again, so thanks for that added little hit to the economy, Farageists.

30% down. But that is mainly due to high fees and visa rigmarole. We have students who fail a bit of coursework, or who defer due to mitigating circumstances, who can't get back into the UK due to visa issue turnaround problems.

The word has got around that we are taking the piss (the fees).

This will have massive impact on the viability of programme, the employability of staff and the reputation if not the existence of parts of the higher education sector.

The legacy of 14 years of tory showboating.

But our borders are now safe!

 

[Jim in the West]

seems many assumptions made about what people's issues are, often around what they want their issues to be for their own political view. it occurs to me many sent down this week who are in jobs and running business might not be in any queue for public services. unless you are pregnant, elderly, sick or out of work your need for services is marginal. does John the young office clerk actually have a grievance against immigrants taking his place in NHS, which he has not current use of, or is he just a bit racist for the sake of it with no real cause?

Given that around a third of nurses and a fifth of doctors in the NHS are immigrants, John the young office clerk should be incredibly grateful for immigration.

 

[aolstudios]

Former Japan bass player, Mick Karn, RIP.

Fabulous player

 

[chickens]

seems many assumptions made about what people's issues are, often around what they want their issues to be for their own political view. it occurs to me many sent down this week who are in jobs and running business might not be in any queue for public services. unless you are pregnant, elderly, sick or out of work your need for services is marginal. does John the young office clerk actually have a grievance against immigrants taking his place in NHS, which he has not current use of, or is he just a bit racist for the sake of it with no real cause?

Well, there will always be a minority of people who just like to stir the pot and fancy a scrap, and like to go where there’s the most noise being made.

Having said that, there wasn’t a great deal of randomness to the targets selected, the chants being chanted, and the people being terrorised.

Ignoring the opportunistic looting that accompanied the riots, visa application centres, firms of solicitors handling refugee cases and supporting infrastructure appear to have been named and targeted. The mob were largely intelligence deficient, but the people who sent them to these locations thought that they had immunity by sitting behind their keyboards in their mum’s basements.

I’m hoping that after the initial rush to prosecute the mouth-breathers lobbing half-bricks at coppers, there’s a concerted effort to collect up every basement Machiavelli wannabe (not you @Machiavelli - the Renaissance chap) who decided to target lawyers, community outreach centres and people who often work very hard for low wages to try and hold communities together.

In fact one of the few bright spots of this whole sorry mess is knowing how little lawyers enjoy threats against themselves or their staff or offices, and I suspect the retribution the lawyers exact against those who targeted them will prove extremely expensive for those who dabbled in a bit of online mob-inciting.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

well lets just hope that the current situation dies down and no one else gets hurt eh....x

i'm well aware of the amount of migrants in Brighton , it is high on the list of places most travellers want to spend time and lets face it , it's a great place to live ......don't hate gyrate , that made me titter.

I'll second that

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think we are in broad agreement to be fair.

(I think) we are both recognising there are reasons that have led to the build up of anger and resentment towards Immigrants amongst sections of a society. Most of those reasons have nothing to do with immigrants but the likes of Farage use them as scapegoats (as Hitler did with the Jews) but either way, we have to address the reasons that enable Farage etc to find fertile ground for their hate and you have done exactly that with your list.

I would add one other: End the fallacy that immigrants ‘take our jobs and undercut our pay’. Pre Brexit most migrant labour was employed doing the jobs that locals would not eg fruit and veg picking and they worked hard and were well paid. We now have a national food crises building because there is a lack of labour and so farmers are not planting the crops. Pay rates remain good but it’s bloody hard work and I can’t see many reform voters or EDL members getting their hands dirty!

Yes, good points.

We have bus loads of East Europeans (very quiet, very polite, very tanned, and speaking languages I can't recognize) picking the fruit in north Kent. They are bussed in to the supermarket once a week. I see some on the creek paths when I go cycling. It used to be Romanians. The women among these are fewer and tend to cover their hair. Crops saved by Muslims? How ironic if true.

So the Tories just about managed to avoid f***ing that one up. I was seriously concerned all the crops would rot. I was wrong.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You're really reaching. That article is deeply flawed. The idea that pre-brexit migration is comparable to post-brexit is laughable.

Any two things are comparable. And you can compare apples and oranges (the comparison will reveal they are different).

But the reason for any difference is often contestable. Especially when comparing Y in year Z with A in year B. And errors can be egregious due to confounds. Such as Brighton are shit now because we won far more games in our last promotion season.

However....we have been sold a lie that only the Tories can deal with 'the boats'. But the numbers skyrocketed under the Tories. I am not trying to counter the Tories' 'we are better than labour' bollocks. Just noting that their claim is baseless. Anyway, everyone sussed that which is why they were routed.

(sorry for reliving the last election - but I rather enjoyed it )

 

[BadFish]

i'm sorry , you seem to think i've bought into the illegal immigrant grooming gang narrative whereas i haven't , i'm just buying into the 160k plus illegal immigrant narrative in the last 12 months and that is a conservative figure ..........SOME quarters have it as high as 200 k ......who knows really.?

also , ask yourself seriously old boy , where are the bulk of the assaults perpetrated .......there are millions of little old white men in leafy towns and villages all over the UK who would never dream of kiddy fiddling , get a grip mate.

Edited

 

[crookie]

Edited

 

[crookie]

Covid, Brexit, Political and Economic Incompetence, Ukraine (all the right reasons, not necessarily in the right order)

No evidence or facts as you rightly demand of other posters !! I do often like your posts and feel you're probably not that different to me though. Just thought I'd throw it out, and of course this scenario could be accurate. Immigrant comes in to work in the care sector, brings in their dependants ( yes I know they can't do that now) works for minimum wage, kids get educated, they are on housing benefits as don't earn enough, all health care paid for, yet pay zero pretty much in tax. Times that by a few hundred thousand and you have the reason why, despite massive Immigration, the economy is flatlining.


What underpins all this of course is the ridiculous cost of housing in this country, and that is on all Governments from Thatcher to Sunak. If people doing normal jobs can afford normal housing, this country would be a much better place.

 

[beorhthelm]

a lot of noise is about how everyone's life is so interminably hard, how difficult it is to get on. then we see riots in northern towns, where property is cheap, and hear so many rioters are in work. makes me wonder about the real motivation. looks like the right-wing supporters are often not doing all that badly, so there a sense of underachievement, failed ambition, rather than tangible issues? along comes some that say their perceived problems are because of the immigrants, while others say its a conspriacy of neo-liberal international companies and banks. well John doesn't know much about that, and quite likes his car lease and Netflix subscription. those immigrants though, they taking something from someone, right? so maybe he'll listen to that. we arrive at the same point of blame the immigrant, but for a different reason, that people are unfulfilled.

 

[Justice]

it's an ill wind,

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

a lot of noise is about how everyone's life is so interminably hard, how difficult it is to get on. then we see riots in northern towns, where property is cheap, and hear so many rioters are in work. makes me wonder about the real motivation. looks like the right-wing supporters are often not doing all that badly, so there a sense of underachievement, failed ambition, rather than tangible issues? along comes some that say their perceived problems are because of the immigrants, while others say its a conspriacy of neo-liberal international companies and banks. well John doesn't know much about that, and quite likes his car lease and Netflix subscription. those immigrants though, they taking something from someone, right? so maybe he'll listen to that. we arrive at the same point of blame the immigrant, but for a different reason, that people are unfulfilled.

Absolutely nailed it

Here is the thing. Our perceptions are not defined by reality. We perceive our 'position' based on how we perceive the position of others. If we think others don't 'deserve' their position we start getting querulous. Most of us suck it up. Some act up.

My 4 years living in Canada knocked the working class chip off my shoulder.

When a few years after moving home an acquaintance whose perceived position and perceived entitlement resulted in an act of folly that got him sacked, and when his rather ambitious next job plan went up in smoke, with a lovely house and young family, he killed himself, I took a long hard look at my lot.

And I said goodbye to envy. I accepted what I get is what I earn. And life is not fair, but it is navigable.

Not sure all are lucky to have that experience and perception

Perhaps I have been too hard on the rioters. Underneath the snarling and jeering maybe there lurks frustrated boys unclear how to be.

Dunno what to do about it, though. Easy to mock and sneer.