[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Jim in the West]

i find it rather amusing that people from Dorset , Mid -Sussex , Faversham , worthing and the like don't have a problem with mass , illegal immigration ......why would they ....??

Mildly amusing, then, that someone who lives over 10,000 miles away feels so strongly about the issue! And also appears to think he (she?) is far better placed to comment on what's happening in the UK at the moment. I'm very much in favour of allowing everyone to voice their opinions, but when they are clearly so ill-informed, is it really worth it?!

 

[BadFish]

Well, if this headline is true, I have no doubt this will pacify the discontented……….I think the comments are a good indicator of the public consensus.

https://search.app/UyQ9s2gKsAr97h6f9

At least we can see whose side the Government is on.

Assuming those that are commenting have read the article, unlike your good self apparently.

 

[sydney]

You seem to be taking the maximum amount of everything and treating it as the average in your calculations.

If you are going to make calculations on how much tax is spent dealing with asylum seekers you can only use known asylum seekers in the calculation. We don't spend any money on unknown asylum seekers.

And to suggest 2.5 million illegal asylum seekers a year.....

Did you know that it is estimated there are a billion inhabited planets in the universe. However the size of the universe is infinite. This means that the average density of the population of the universe is a finite number divided by infinity. Anything divided by infinity is zero. This means the average population of the universe is zero. This means the actual population of the universe must also be zero. And I didn't even base my calculation on estimates of 'illegal' population which is very certainly lurking out here. You can do anything with maths.

jesus ....... that's total bollox..

i don't think anyone , ever has expostulated the theory that nobody exists , anywhere , ever........ever...

calm down old chap , this is just a few knobs bickering on a football forum , nothing is going to change as a result of what is said in here.

 

[sydney]

Mildly amusing, then, that someone who lives over 10,000 miles away feels so strongly about the issue! And also appears to think he (she?) is far better placed to comment on what's happening in the UK at the moment. I'm very much in favour of allowing everyone to voice their opinions, but when they are clearly so ill-informed, is it really worth it?!

clearly ill informed yes , getting info from people recently returned for numerous parts England from Watford to Warrington....clearly ill informed , i do apologise.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

the only place i discuss this really is on here , spreading misinformation is a tad grand , only other chats had are people who have recently returned from various parts of the country and said it's got to shit ....almost to a man /woman

Bingo..! other parts of the country do have problems with illegal immigrants /asylum seekers , call it/ them what you will

Other parts of the country.

Yes, it has kicked off largely up north. We saw what happened to the 6 protesters in Brighton. Boy you must hate Brighton for not tapping into the anti-immigrant zeitgeist.

Now, up north, what have we seen? We have seen blokes who look like football hooligans attacking mosques and the police. This is in areas where the ethnic minorities were established decades ago. How many asylum hostels are there, damaging local services, in Stoke? And Hartlepool? What are the white blokes protesting about?

Sorry mate. These are entitled white gammon kicking off. Just look at the photos and film. The same sorts you see in middle aged football 'firms' reliving a past when white working class yoof apparently ruled Britannia. And their copycat progeny. Almost entirely male.

Contrast that to the 'migrants welcome here' protesters:

 

[WATFORD zero]

Other parts of the country.

Yes, it has kicked off largely up north. We saw what happened to the 6 protesters in Brighton. Boy you must hate Brighton for not tapping into the anti-immigrant zeitgeist.

Now, up north, what have we seen? We have seen blokes who look like football hooligans attacking mosques and the police. This is in areas where the ethnic minorities were established decades ago. How many asylum hostels are there, damaging local services, in Stoke? And Hartlepool? What are the white blokes protesting about?

Sorry mate. These are entitled white gammon kicking off. Just look at the photos and film. The same sorts you see in middle aged football 'firms' reliving a past when white working class yoof apparently ruled Britannia. And their copycat progeny. Almost entirely male.

View attachment 186890

Contrast that to the 'migrants welcome here' protesters:

View attachment 186889

But that's Brighton, which syd will tell you doesn't count as it's leafy white British. Despite the fact that Brighton, with over 20% non British born, is higher than the national average of less than 15%

Well who knew

I'm guessing most of the people who actually live here

 

[BadFish]

But that's Brighton, which syd will tell you doesn't count as it's white British. Despite the fact that Brighton, with over 20% non British born, is higher than the national average of less than 15%

Well who knew

I'm guessing most of the people who actually live here

What No!!!!

Next you'll be suggesting that it's more to do with living in poorer areas rather than numbers of foreigners.

Nah it's about the brown people!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

jesus ....... that's total bollox..

i don't think anyone , ever has expostulated the theory that nobody exists , anywhere , ever........ever...

calm down old chap , this is just a few knobs bickering on a football forum , nothing is going to change as a result of what is said in here.

You clearly haven't read Douglas Adams. Hitch hiker's guide to the Galaxy. It is a very amusing and insightful sci fi 'romp' from which I just pinched the population calculations; I recommend it.

In all seriousness, the UK is doing OK. People are largely nice (much nicer than in the 60s and 70s). Strangers smile and say hello.

There are pockets of dysfunction, of course. And some of this is ethnically weaponized. But there is far too much mixing for it to have much traction.

I have lived long enough to recognize that society changes slowly, that people in general want a quiet life, and lunatics that want to turn an area into a 'caliphate' or an enclave for exclusively white working class pursuits simply don't have the support. I remember 30 years ago some orthodox Jews wanted to hang some string or something around Finchley so it could officially be something or other to do with the Sabbath or something. There was a media backlash. But it all died on its arse, like these things always do.

All the best

 

[sydney]

You clearly haven't read Douglas Adams. Hitch hiker's guide to the Galaxy. It is a very amusing and insightful sci fi 'romp' from which I just pinched the population calculations; I recommend it.

In all seriousness, the UK is doing OK. People are largely nice (much nicer than in the 60s and 70s). Strangers smile and say hello.

There are pockets of dysfunction, of course. And some of this is ethnically weaponized. But there is far too much mixing for it to have much traction.

I have lived long enough to recognize that society changes slowly, that people in general want a quiet life, and lunatics that want to turn an area into a 'caliphate' or an enclave for exclusively white working class pursuits simply don't have the support. I remember 30 years ago some orthodox Jews wanted to hang some string or something around Finchley so it could officially be something or other to do with the Sabbath or something. There was a media backlash. But it all died on its arse, like these things always do.

All the best

well lets just hope that the current situation dies down and no one else gets hurt eh....x

i'm well aware of the amount of migrants in Brighton , it is high on the list of places most travellers want to spend time and lets face it , it's a great place to live ......don't hate gyrate , that made me titter.

 

[sydney]

But that's Brighton, which syd will tell you doesn't count as it's leafy white British. Despite the fact that Brighton, with over 20% non British born, is higher than the national average of less than 15%

Well who knew

I'm guessing most of the people who actually live here

yer a bell end mate.

 

[Hamilton]

Apparently she was used by Julia Hartley-Brewer, Neil Oliver and Dan Wooton as 'an expert' on their various shows. Who would've thunk it

This is the kind of unqualified individual some media commentators allow on their shows as ‘experts’.



Wake up people. The truth is simpler than some bizarre conspiracy theory.

And 40,000 people on small boats are not the cause of your problems.

 

[Eric the meek]

This is the kind of unqualified individual some media commentators allow on their shows as ‘experts’.



Wake up people. The truth is simpler than some bizarre conspiracy theory.

And 40,000 people on small boats are not the cause of your problems.

Exactly. Therefore, to achieve a solution, they need to look closer to home. Relying on the kindness - or absence - of strangers is unlikely to fulfill their dreams.

 

[zefarelly]

Other parts of the country.

Yes, it has kicked off largely up north. We saw what happened to the 6 protesters in Brighton. Boy you must hate Brighton for not tapping into the anti-immigrant zeitgeist.

Now, up north, what have we seen? We have seen blokes who look like football hooligans attacking mosques and the police. This is in areas where the ethnic minorities were established decades ago. How many asylum hostels are there, damaging local services, in Stoke? And Hartlepool? What are the white blokes protesting about?

Sorry mate. These are entitled white gammon kicking off. Just look at the photos and film. The same sorts you see in middle aged football 'firms' reliving a past when white working class yoof apparently ruled Britannia. And their copycat progeny. Almost entirely male.

View attachment 186890

Contrast that to the 'migrants welcome here' protesters:

View attachment 186889

Interesting aerticle in the FT weekend entitled 'how to read a riot' bottom line being tthe resemblance between what we're seeing now and football hooligans of auld is unmissable . . . Probably because some of those grandads getting locked up are the FH's of auld

 

[The Clamp]

Other parts of the country.

Yes, it has kicked off largely up north. We saw what happened to the 6 protesters in Brighton. Boy you must hate Brighton for not tapping into the anti-immigrant zeitgeist.

Now, up north, what have we seen? We have seen blokes who look like football hooligans attacking mosques and the police. This is in areas where the ethnic minorities were established decades ago. How many asylum hostels are there, damaging local services, in Stoke? And Hartlepool? What are the white blokes protesting about?

Sorry mate. These are entitled white gammon kicking off. Just look at the photos and film. The same sorts you see in middle aged football 'firms' reliving a past when white working class yoof apparently ruled Britannia. And their copycat progeny. Almost entirely male.

View attachment 186890

Contrast that to the 'migrants welcome here' protesters:

View attachment 186889

This toothless blob has found a strange shiny object and is marvelling at it, trying to imagine what it could be.

 

[Jim in the West]

clearly ill informed yes , getting info from people recently returned for numerous parts England from Watford to Warrington....clearly ill informed , i do apologise.

OK - so now we know where you're getting your info from it's far easier to understand why your posts on here are so ridiculous!!

 

[Zeberdi]

I think it is a confusing process, as it must have been when murderers on both sides of the Northern Ireland troubles were effectively forgiven. The peace process put aside the concept of who or what was ‘right’ in order to find a middle ground that moved everyone forward from decades of hate and violence. Similarly in Rwanda (genocide) and South Africa (apartheid).

Justice through the courts must prevail in the current situation but if we want to become a society without racism, bigotry etc then we also need to put aside some of our own convictions about what is right or wrong in order to address the causes.

By so doing we can hope to eliminate the source of oxygen that enables the EDF and Farage to breath and be heard.

I agree ‘eliminating the source of oxygen that enables the EDF and Farage to be heard’ is crucial.

However, the answer imo isn’t to compromise our response and ‘forgive’ and ‘reconcile’ ourselves to the motivating force driving these riots which is racism and/or mindless thuggery but to deal with the misconceptions that ‘immigration’ is the driving factors behind social decline and poverty.

The way to do that is imo:

• better investment in domestic education and vocational training (which SKS has pledged to do) in order to end the skills shortage that is creating the demand for an immigrant workforce.
• maintaining the points based system of entry - which SKS has pledged to do
• reinvestment in our public services -especially healthcare - which SKS has pledged to do
• kick-starting house-building - end the lack of willingness to invest in infrastructure and construction - affordable housing has for decades failed to meet demand for even the non-immigrant population because housing is constructed for profit not need. Again an issue SKS has pledged to address.
• end the fallacy that ‘immigration‘ is not being addressed or discussed openly - it’s discussed everywhere.
• combat the fear mongering and idea that cultural ‘diversity’ erodes a sense of shared British values when they have little to do with nationality - I share nothing with far right supremacist ideology, racists, anti-LGBTQ, or misogynists or even with ‘white British Tories’ or Reformers but that doesn’t mean we should export them.

 

[British Bulldog]

How can a question be an attitude?

Are you going to explain or will you just leave us guessing?

Your mentality of them v's us, you'll never reach middle ground or understanding of people's concerns with that attitude.

 

[abc]

I agree ‘eliminating the source of oxygen that enables the EDF and Farage to be heard’ is crucial.

However, the answer imo isn’t to compromise our response and ‘forgive’ and ‘reconcile’ ourselves to the motivating force driving these riots which is racism and/or mindless thuggery but to deal with the misconceptions that ‘immigration’ is the driving factors behind social decline and poverty.

The way to do that is imo:

• better investment in domestic education and vocational training (which SKS has pledged to do) in order to end the skills shortage that is creating the demand for an immigrant workforce.
• maintaining the points based system of entry - which SKS has pledged to do
• reinvestment in our public services -especially healthcare - which SKS has pledged to do
• kick-starting house-building - end the lack of willingness to invest in infrastructure and construction - affordable housing has for decades failed to meet demand for even the non-immigrant population because housing is constructed for profit not need. Again an issue SKS has pledged to address.
• end the fallacy that ‘immigration‘ is not being addressed or discussed openly - it’s discussed everywhere.
• combat the fear mongering and idea that cultural ‘diversity’ erodes a sense of shared British values when they have little to do with nationality - I share nothing with far right supremacist ideology, racists, anti-LGBTQ, or misogynists or even with ‘white British Tories’ or Reformers but that doesn’t mean we should export them.

I think we are in broad agreement to be fair.

(I think) we are both recognising there are reasons that have led to the build up of anger and resentment towards Immigrants amongst sections of a society. Most of those reasons have nothing to do with immigrants but the likes of Farage use them as scapegoats (as Hitler did with the Jews) but either way, we have to address the reasons that enable Farage etc to find fertile ground for their hate and you have done exactly that with your list.

I would add one other: End the fallacy that immigrants ‘take our jobs and undercut our pay’. Pre Brexit most migrant labour was employed doing the jobs that locals would not eg fruit and veg picking and they worked hard and were well paid. We now have a national food crises building because there is a lack of labour and so farmers are not planting the crops. Pay rates remain good but it’s bloody hard work and I can’t see many reform voters or EDL members getting their hands dirty!

 

[chickens]

Your mentality of them v's us, you'll never reach middle ground or understanding of people's concerns with that attitude.

As others have already stated, there isn’t any middle ground between racist and non-racist, nor do I particularly want there to be.

The problems that those rioting place at the doors of immigration are actually political and economic problems caused mainly by multinational firms cornering entire markets and setting themselves up so they not only pay little to no tax, but sometimes claim payments from the British exchequer.

This lack of tax income leaves public services running on whatever tax take HMRC can chisel out of workers and small businesses.

Until British voters are angry about the right things, and writing to their MPs to insist something be done about them, the current status quo will continue.

The right will continue to use deflection tactics to scapegoat immigration as the cause of people’s problems. It’s a lie, don’t believe them. I personally believe that the editors of the Mail and the Express should be up in court for inciting racial hatred. They’ve banged that drum for over a decade without consequence.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Your mentality of them v's us, you'll never reach middle ground or understanding of people's concerns with that attitude.

There's no middle ground with racism or with violent rioting. None. It's as big a fallacy as the two tier policing nonsense currently spewing from the far right.