[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[jcdenton08]

I agree, yet so many people speak so confidently on the subject. Yet they consistently expose themselves as not having a clue what they are on about.



Reading the Daily Mail certainly does the opposite, The Guardian would push you a little closer to expert status, the United Nation Refugee Convention closer still. Other than that you probably need to read and understand all the legislation around the subject and probably more to become an expert.

I don't think we need people to be experts though, a passing understanding would do.

This is tongue in cheek, surely?

The very concept of bias in media means every story is coloured to their specific target audience. The Guardian generally on news stories are pretty decent, but some of their columnists and op-eds are laughable. Even Grauniad supporters find some of the copium risible.

I like their sport and world news coverage, but I quickly learnt that the media is a tool for the wealthy owners to try and shape the opinions of their readers towards their way of thinking.

Becoming, as you put it, “an expert” means not getting all your news from a biased source, and instead using multiple sources to be able to acknowledge and understand all sides of any given debate.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We've just been talking in the office about the main catalyst for all this, the shocking events in Southport, but its actually not the illegal immigrant issue, which manned have piggy backed on to, as the accused was born in Wales, his Rwandan parents were here legally, he'd even played a young Doctor Who on the Beeb, its the mental health epidemic we now have in this country, and we've had it long before Covid but its has apparently intensified since lock down.

And also perhaps the perception of the Police, apparently when he was playing up in the taxi, the cabbie contemplated central locking the doors and driving him to the Police station, but didn't because he thought the Police wouldn't do anything.

I really don't know what the answer is, never considered myself a NIMBY, but I really hope events in Brighton tonight don't get out of hand, Sussex Police are overstretched and undermanned as it is.

You sound a bit confused, mate. As do all of us who can't do the weird sums that a minority seem to find so easy.

One plus one equals twelve. Those sort of sums.

 

[jackalbion]

Few people have any actual informed knowledge on migration matters.

Reading the Daily Mail or Guardian does not make someone an expert.

 

[beorhthelm]

Elon Musk and other social media platform owners should be made individually and corporately, criminally liable for the harmful content of their sites.

we really dont want this. any legislation that would affect "social media platforms" in this way would stiffle all free speech and affect smaller social platforms - such as NSC. imagine the forum owner being liable for harmful comments made by someone, deleted but seen, they would have to shut it down or impose post moderation.

individual posters and commentators should be, and already are in many cases, responsible for what they post. you can be held liable for comments on Twitter, cases of incitement based on tweets are going through the courts.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have a horrible feeling that there has been a culture war brewing both here and all around Europe for decades now, and it is finally rearing its ugly head.

Immigration is great when executed well, but I think when a country brings in too many undesirable people who commit terrible crimes, it is inevitably going to result in a rise of nationalism, particularly amongst working class people who fail to see the bigger picture.

But seeing reactionary groups such as the 'muslim defence league' is what troubles me the most. It could become a full blown culture war, where normal people start getting affected, with many being dragged in and picking sides.

Hopefully this far right/far left/ideological rioting doesn't escalate any further... but with the stagnant economy and visibly lower quality of living standards, it has been typical in history for people to look for groups of people to blame.

Please don't buy into it then.

A 'culture war' is an invention by people who want to have a war with (certain) cultures.

In other words, it's a load of old bollocks.

 

[jackalbion]

I have a horrible feeling that there has been a culture war brewing both here and all around Europe for decades now, and it is finally rearing its ugly head.

Immigration is great when executed well, but I think when a country brings in too many undesirable people who commit terrible crimes, it is inevitably going to result in a rise of nationalism, particularly amongst working class people who fail to see the bigger picture.

But seeing reactionary groups such as the 'muslim defence league' is what troubles me the most. It could become a full blown culture war, where normal people start getting affected, with many being dragged in and picking sides.

Hopefully this far right/far left/ideological rioting doesn't escalate any further... but with the stagnant economy and visibly lower quality of living standards, it has been typical in history for people to look for groups of people to blame.

Is this something that actually exists, or is it something made up in someone's head because it certainly seems that way.

 

[BadFish]

This is tongue in cheek, surely?

The very concept of bias in media means every story is coloured to their specific target audience. The Guardian generally on news stories are pretty decent, but some of their columnists and op-eds are laughable. Even Grauniad supporters find some of the copium risible.

I like their sport and world news coverage, but I quickly learnt that the media is a tool for the wealthy owners to try and shape the opinions of their readers towards their way of thinking.

Becoming, as you put it, “an expert” means not getting all your news from a biased source, and instead using multiple sources to be able to acknowledge and understand all sides of any given debate.

The Guardian has a higher quality of journalism than the Daily Mail.

I didn't put it as 'expert' the poster I was replying to did. You will note that my post said that reading the Guardian would push you a 'little' closer to becoming an expert. I then went on to describe what else someone would need to do to become an expert.

How you came to the conclusion described in your last sentence is beyond me, it bears absolutely no resemblance to what I wrote in my post. I suggest you re read it.

 

[Mustafa II]

Is this something that actually exists, or is it something made up in someone's head because it certainly seems that way.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A terrorist incident would mean he was working for a terrorist organisation. That organisation would claim it. It's hardly going to be ISIS if he's a Christian. So how do you think you would describe him differently to the media?




Again, if that's a terrorist attack, the organisation will claim it. Like the 7/7 bombings were terrorist attacks, and reported a such. I'm not sure why you think the media don't say when it's a terrorist attack.



So what do you think it is? If terrorism, who is the organisation?



Huw is a repulsive criminal. He tried to hide his crimes and lied. I'm not sure what your point is there. You're pointing out that criminals lie, but the authorities followed it up, found him guilty, and told us the real truth behind his sorded actions



We do, they are trying to stop the illegal immigration.



You're being silly. If what you said was true we wouldn't have tried to send them to Rwanda.


No, it's the social media influencers who lie and fool people like you who are responsible.



It does seem like an odd choice. What do you think would be a better solution?


No, he's only referring to the current riots. Starmer himself wants to stop the boats.

I salute your indefatigability. Again.

(I don't have such patience and put the oddball on ignore years ago. I have a lovely cat who I can talk to when I feel no need for a coherent reply.).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would not necessarily believe a few random postings of wannabee gansters on Facebook.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The author of that tweet is an Indian, most likely Hindu, living in India, confidently posted that India led the way in eradicating smallpox and polio. Hardly an accurate source of news.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The planned Brighton demonstrations have been mentioned a few times on this thread together with the details, but given other poster's concerns I won't quote the details.

Having said that, as I made clear earlier, I am going to the anti demo and I would encourage Brighton based people to do likewise. I believe that what will happen is that a few racist, feral twats will be hugely outnumbered by a large anti demonstration and, as a result, nothing will happen and it will break up peacefully.

I'd love to see 10,000 on the anti demo as I think that would be the exact type of positive message that needs to be put out across the country, and Brighton is in a far better position to make this statement rather than towns with a history of right wing extremist violence

Can you please carry a placard with printed on it so that we know where you are? Thanks

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We've just been talking in the office about the main catalyst for all this, the shocking events in Southport, but its actually not the illegal immigrant issue, which manned have piggy backed on to, as the accused was born in Wales, his Rwandan parents were here legally, he'd even played a young Doctor Who on the Beeb, its the mental health epidemic we now have in this country, and we've had it long before Covid but its has apparently intensified since lock down.

And also perhaps the perception of the Police, apparently when he was playing up in the taxi, the cabbie contemplated central locking the doors and driving him to the Police station, but didn't because he thought the Police wouldn't do anything.

I really don't know what the answer is, never considered myself a NIMBY, but I really hope events in Brighton tonight don't get out of hand, Sussex Police are overstretched and undermanned as it is.

I think there's a point about people being more open about their mental health issues. There's also a point about the increase in times it's being used in bad faith to mitigate a prison sentence.

But I think the bigger picture is that we hear about violent crimes more than we did and there's more outrage on social media and this affects our perception of how safe our nation is.

Look at this

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Crime against households and people aged 16 years and over, using data from police recorded crime and the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

www.ons.gov.uk

Over the last few decades

Overall crime = well down
Violent crime = miles down from 20 years ago
Theft, burglary = miles down from 20 years ago
Murder = less than half than 20 years ago
Knife crime up, but not as far up as gun crime is down

This is despite a rising population, increased immigration and falling police numbers

There are some fair counter points about the increase in reported sexual crimes

I'm not saying we're in a land of perfection. But I do think we, as a nation, and (with genuine respect to you for all you've done) you as an individual should weight the horrors and outrage which you view on social media against, the knowledge that there's always been crime, there's always been perverts, there's always been murders, and sometimes it's been children, but on average we're safer than we've ever been.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

Bringing in martial law only gives credence to the racists.

 

[jcdenton08]

The author of that tweet is Indian, and confidently posted that India led the way in eradicating smallpox and polio. Hardly an accurate source of news.

 

[nevergoagain]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

What can the army do that the police can't if they've said they have enough numbers?, I'm sure you aren't meaning the very obvious.

 

[Washie]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

doing that plays right in to their hands. They can then point to that as proof Starmer and the government are stifling free speech

 

[Guinness Boy]

we really dont want this. any legislation that would affect "social media platforms" in this way would stiffle all free speech and affect smaller social platforms - such as NSC. imagine the forum owner being liable for harmful comments made by someone, deleted but seen, they would have to shut it down or impose post moderation.

individual posters and commentators should be, and already are in many cases, responsible for what they post. you can be held liable for comments on Twitter, cases of incitement based on tweets are going through the courts.

Agreed. Not only would legislation be a PITA for NSC but it would achieve nothing. You cannot "uninvent" the internet and plenty of people would be able to access anything that was unilaterally banned here. If we're just talking legal action then that action should be against the individual and not the platform. In fact, it's great that Tommy's been drunk tweeting from Cyprus. Sure, he's inspired a few hate mobs but many more people will have been turned off by his bile and he's likely to tweet himself into a jail cell sooner, rather than later.

What Elon would hate is losing advertising revenue (he's today trying to sue companies that withdrew ads in 2022 in the US). Are there any big sponsors or advertisers left who are happy to be associated with his right wing conspiracy theories and the racism of many of his users? Let's hope not......

 

[worthingseagull123]

I think there's a point about people being more open about their mental health issues. There's also a point about the increase in times it's being used in bad faith to mitigate a prison sentence.

But I think the bigger picture is that we hear about violent crimes more than we did and there's more outrage on social media and this affects our perception of how safe our nation is.

Look at this

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Crime against households and people aged 16 years and over, using data from police recorded crime and the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

www.ons.gov.uk

Over the last few decades

Overall crime = well down
Violent crime = miles down from 20 years ago
Theft, burglary = miles down from 20 years ago
Murder = less than half than 20 years ago
Knife crime up, but not as far up as gun crime is down

This is despite a rising population, increased immigration and falling police numbers

There are some fair counter points about the increase in reported sexual crimes

I'm not saying we're in a land of perfection. But I do think we, as a nation, and (with genuine respect to you for all you've done) you as an individual should weight the horrors and outrage which you view on social media against, the knowledge that there's always been crime, there's always been perverts, there's always been murders, and sometimes it's been children, but on average we're safer than we've ever been.

It could be down to more people coming forward to report sexual offences.