[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[AstroSloth]

Could this mean that the BBC may not actually fact check their news articles after all ?

Southport: Three more men jailed for violent disorder

They admit taking part in a disturbance near Southport mosque after three girls were fatally stabbed.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The violence was started by false online rumours that the suspect in the Southport attack was a Muslim."

Prove he's a Muslim?

We know he was a Christian choir boy previously, but the only evidence he may have anything to do with Islam is him possessing a pamphlet created by Al Quaeda.

I own a copy of The Communist Manifesto, doesn't automatically make me a Marxist (I'm not one anyway).

 

[Jackthelad]

Where do you get the idea from that he is a Muslim?

MSM widely reported that he was a ‘quiet and introverted ‘choir boy’‘ living with his parents who were ’heavily’ involved in the local Church.

The BBC are correct in stating that the riots were started by false rumours on social media that Axel Rudabukana was a muslim immigrant.


Can people actually stop posting false information - isn’t X bad enough without NSC adding to the mountains of rumours

That’s one article

How much of that is true. It seems highly unlikely.

Rightly or wrongly the reporting on one of the most evil acts this nation has seen has been very iffy to say the least.

The “ good Christian” story sounds utterly ridiculous. Maybe when he was a younger they mean.

He has Islamist material. What time frame are we talking about as well. When was he active in his church and was that a tactic to hide his true Islamist ideology. We will have to see what we get told in the coming months and (if we actually get told the truth)

 

[carlzeiss]

Southport suspect Axel Rudakubana refuses to speak in court over murder, ricin and terror charges

Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana has refused to speak as he appeared in court over murder, ricin and terror charges.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[jcdenton08]

Hands up who has Islamist terror material in their possession, along with deadly poison, having just murdered three innocent young girls at a birthday party? Nobody?

Big difference between the above and owning a copy of “The Communist Manifesto”, a comparison, I think, which is rather blasé and disingenuous.

 

[Zeberdi]

Hands up who has Islamist terror material in their possession, along with deadly poison, having just murdered three innocent young girls at a birthday party? Nobody?

Big difference between the above and owning a copy of “The Communist Manifesto”, a comparison, I think, which is rather blasé and disingenuous.

You seem to be missing the point. For a crime to be designated at a terrorist attack it has to be motivated by an ideology at the time of the attack. Otherwise it is just a murder charge.


You may be right - the police could establish a causative link with what they found in the house to a terrorist intention behind his killing spree. However, until that is clearly established, they cannot bring a charge of Terrorism against him for the attack. They have to prove that he was trying to further a religious or political ideology.


The latest terror charges do not require the element of intention so easier to prove - the charges are possession and production of Ricin.

We just don’t know enough to speculate and the rumours circulating of cover ups are ridiculous conspiracy theories being pedalled by the hard right to keep immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiments at the fore.

That’s one article

I posted another above.

This is information that was provided in Court and by neighbours.

“In court, the prosecution said that Rudakubana had been “diagnosed with autism” and had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

Southport stabbing: Who is Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, the 17-year-old who ‘killed’ 3 children?

After keeping his identity unknown for days, a court in the UK has lifted the restrictions in naming the 17-year-old accused in the Southport stabbing case. The teen has been identified as Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, who according to neighbours, is ‘quiet and introverted’. His motive for killing...

www.firstpost.com

 

[Guinness Boy]

You seem to be missing the point. For a crime to be designated at a terrorist attack it has to be motivated by an ideology at the time of the attack. Otherwise it is just a murder charge.


You may be right - the police could establish a causative link with what they found in the house to a terrorist intention behind his killing spree. However, until that is clearly established, they cannot bring a charge of Terrorism against him for the attack. They have to prove that he was trying to further a religious or political ideology.


The latest terror charges do not require the element of intention so easier to prove - the charges are possession and production of Ricin.

We just don’t know enough to speculate and the rumours circulating of cover ups are ridiculous conspiracy theories being pedalled by the hard right to keep immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiments at the fore.

I posted another above.

This is information that was provided in Court and by neighbours.

“In court, the prosecution said that Rudakubana had been “diagnosed with autism” and had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

Southport stabbing: Who is Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, the 17-year-old who ‘killed’ 3 children?

After keeping his identity unknown for days, a court in the UK has lifted the restrictions in naming the 17-year-old accused in the Southport stabbing case. The teen has been identified as Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, who according to neighbours, is ‘quiet and introverted’. His motive for killing...

www.firstpost.com

Yes. This was covered in detail, yet brilliantly explained on this morning's Today programme. The legislation (not made by the current government) - as it stands - mean that you have to prove the defendant was motivated to terrorise people due to a religious or political ideology.

In the past this was easy. People made martyrdom videos or social media posts which showed they were exactly that. Police are still trying to establish whether this is the case for Southport, which is why speculating about it could endanger the whole prosecution.

It's also why Tommy Ten Names was asked for his phone pin. To search for evidence (or not) of crimes that were motivated by his political beliefs.

It's throughly depressing to read that in 2024 there's still a significant portion of Brighton's fanbase who believe that a white man should be treated better than a black or brown one under the law and then even seek to label it "two tier". I thought we were better than that but clearly the monkey chants and bananas have been replaced by social media activity.

 

[Since1982]

Yes. This was covered in detail, yet brilliantly explained on this morning's Today programme. The legislation (not made by the current government) - as it stands - mean that you have to prove the defendant was motivated to terrorise people due to a religious or political ideology.

In the past this was easy. People made martyrdom videos or social media posts which showed they were exactly that. Police are still trying to establish whether this is the case for Southport, which is why speculating about it could endanger the whole prosecution.

It's also why Tommy Ten Names was asked for his phone pin. To search for evidence (or not) of crimes that were motivated by his political beliefs.

It's throughly depressing to read that in 2024 there's still a significant portion of Brighton's fanbase who believe that a white man should be treated better than a black or brown one under the law and then even seek to label it "two tier". I thought we were better than that but clearly the monkey chants and bananas have been replaced by social media activity.

I fear that the subtlety of this argument transcends the understanding of your average racist / pro Tommy Robinson / anti Muslim. Meantime, those who love to stoke up division and hatred - Kendrick / Badenoch and the rest can play on this fact in pursuit of their unpleasant objectives.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Hands up who has Islamist terror material in their possession, along with deadly poison, having just murdered three innocent young girls at a birthday party? Nobody?

Big difference between the above and owning a copy of “The Communist Manifesto”, a comparison, I think, which is rather blasé and disingenuous.

I pointed out, with a clip from Newsnight, in post 3995, the pdf is from the USA military studying Al Qaeda. Whether it had an effect on the defendant or was instrumental in grooming, is for the police and counter terrorism to prove.

It must also be mentioned, again, this case is sub judice, with a trial date for January.

 

[rippleman]

Does it really matter about his motives or religion?

This cowardly scumbag bastard is never going to walk the streets again. He is going to get a whole life sentence which I very much hope he sees out in isolation and fear.

 

[Sussax]

Does it really matter about his motives or religion?

This cowardly scumbag bastard is never going to walk the streets again. He is going to get a whole life sentence which I very much hope he sees out in isolation and fear.

Wouldn’t you want to know why your kids were killed?

 

[Napper]

Most people clocked all this for what it was the moment it sadly happened

People know how the media work with all this !

 

[Littlemo]

Hands up who has Islamist terror material in their possession, along with deadly poison, having just murdered three innocent young girls at a birthday party? Nobody?

Big difference between the above and owning a copy of “The Communist Manifesto”, a comparison, I think, which is rather blasé and disingenuous.

Actually not an Islamic terror manual but when we were much younger, my brother and his friends found the IRA terrorist handbook online and printed it off. He showed me the bit that tells you how to blow up cars with washing-up liquid.

I don’t think it was all that difficult to find, this was ages ago and they found it during computer class at school, so they aren’t computer literate whizz kids by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[jcdenton08]

Actually not an Islamic terror manual but when we were much younger, my brother and his friends found the IRA terrorist handbook online and printed it off. He showed me the bit that tells you how to blow up cars with washing-up liquid.

I don’t think it was all that difficult to find, this was ages ago and they found it during computer class at school, so they aren’t computer literate whizz kids by any stretch of the imagination.

Had they cultivated ricin and murdered three children too?

 

[A1X]

So let me get this straight. The accusation is the police withheld some information (which had no bearing on the severity of the crime committed nor the likelihood of placing other members of the public in danger) because there were riots happening and they wanted to cool tensions.

And that’s somehow bad?

 

[Zeberdi]

That’s one article

How much of that is true. It seems highly unlikely.

Rightly or wrongly the reporting on one of the most evil acts this nation has seen has been very iffy to say the least.

The “ good Christian” story sounds utterly ridiculous. Maybe when he was a younger they mean.

He has Islamist material. What time frame are we talking about as well. When was he active in his church and was that a tactic to hide his true Islamist ideology. We will have to see what we get told in the coming months and (if we actually get told the truth)

No it was several posted above ..

So rather than believe neighbours and the prosecuting lawyers about some of the background detail about who this guy and his parents are which was stated in Court in the prelim, we should believe your wild and biased theorising?

I have explained several times that in order for him to be charged under the Terrorism Act the CPS needs to prove intent.

You are simply not understanding that the police are STILL gathering information and evidence relating to the motivation for the attack. The police are not going to hand this over to the CPS until they are reasonably sure they have enough evidence to secure a conviction.

If people really want the see this guy charged under the Terrorism Act for the stabbings, the best thing anyone can do frankly is stop posting twisted narratives online to fit their world views.

Let the police do their job.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

I’m a bit confused by your comments.

The Southport killings weren’t deemed a terrorist attack by the police and according to the news I have looked at on actual news sites, Southport is still not being deemed a terrorist attack. In order for there to be a terrorist attack there needs to be a motive present which the Counter Terrorism police haven’t (yet) established in the Southport killings. No one covered anything up afaics.

Subsequently, after the stabbings, the property was searched and he is now being charged with separate offences under S1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974 for the production of ricin (which presented a low risk to the public) and under S58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 for possession of a document that could be used to plan a terror attack.

Apparently the police are still investigating the stabbings and as such will be very reticent about releasing any information to protect the integrity of their case.

Not all hoof sounds are the sounds of zebras - some are just horses

 

[Littlemo]

Had they cultivated ricin and murdered three children too?

No, but you are making it sound like it’s somehow hard to get this stuff and you have to go out your way to obtain it. It’s not and managing to download it doesn’t mean you have any actual links to Islam or any organisation.

It’s sad how desperate people are to make this an Islamic terrorist attack when the evidence isn’t there to say that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Had they cultivated ricin and murdered three children too?

There is no question the murder charges are correct. The police etc are still piecing together the motive.
As you know, a court of law doesn’t take emotions into account, just evidence.

It’s a vile evil crime.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Does it really matter about his motives or religion?

This cowardly scumbag bastard is never going to walk the streets again. He is going to get a whole life sentence which I very much hope he sees out in isolation and fear.

It may have some relevance if it were the case that he's a weird little autistic freak, as has been reported.

Not sure I feel all that comfortable locking him up with a load of halfwit gammon who want to (and will) attack him.

I would imagine he'll be off to Broadmoor.

 

[Skuller]

So let me get this straight. The accusation is the police withheld some information (which had no bearing on the severity of the crime committed nor the likelihood of placing other members of the public in danger) because there were riots happening and they wanted to cool tensions.

And that’s somehow bad?

The problem is that when you withhold information you provide a vacuum in which unsubstantiated facts, worse than you withheld, can thrive. You also provide a precedent for further unsubstantiated proposals the next time a similar event happens.

The truth can be dangerous, but nowhere near as dangerous as its hiding.