Protests in London

[cunning fergus]

You're not making comparisons you're childishly deflecting bad Tory policy by talking about bad Labour policy as if the latter cancels out the former. You seem far more conerned with pointing out Labour's flaws than you are at looking at what is happening now and has been happening over the last five years to most vunerable in society.

Sure, but without any narrative this is a completely meaningless binary point.

It is not possible to say something is bad without context.

If you had been punched in the face in the pub, and went up the hospital with a black eye, and sat next to a bloke who had lost both his arms in a hay-bailing accident, would you moan to him about your misfortune?

Because that is what you are doing now.

 

[Nibble]

There is nothing wrong with peaceful protest at all. The fact that this one turned out not to be is the issue, as far as I am concerned anyway.

You're quite right. There is a picture of a police officer grinding a hand into a protestors face, so, as you say, not all peaceful.

 

[Butch Willykins]

Yesterday's rally was only a pre-cursor to a much bigger anti austerity rally on June 20th in London as part of a "Summer of Discontent"

It's ok. Boris should have had his water cannon delivered by then.

 

[cunning fergus]

Immigration is a problem IMO, but too many people throw the racist label about when it's discussed, I think that if a migrant wants to move here and actually brings something to the country than they are obviously welcome but it's this mass migration that is an issue. I am not racist in any way but something needs to be done about it. Obviously it's not the biggest issue and I also feel too many British people would rather get benefits than get a job

Sure, it's not the one single reason why there is unprecedented pressure on housing stock, and ergo why your generation will struggle to get on the property ladder but it is evidently a factor too.

Similarly, an open border with the EU means an open labour market, no one controls who comes, they can come one come all. The old Labour Party (1960s to early 90s) used to be against the EU because of this kind of free market practice as they said it would ultimately disadvantage British workers.

New Labour turned this on its head, embraced the EU and told the country only 15,000 poles would arrive.

Hope you do well at school or have a good trade you will need it.

 

[El Presidente]

Sure, but without any narrative this is a completely meaningless binary point.

It is not possible to say something is bad without context.

If you had been punched in the face in the pub, and went up the hospital with a black eye, and sat next to a bloke who had lost both his arms in a hay-bailing accident, would you moan to him about your misfortune?

Because that is what you are doing now.

If you accused someone of being sympathetic to paedophiles and child abuse because they have an alternate political view to you, would that be justified.

If you've got the evidence to back it up, then why not show it?

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of your insinuation that I'm sympathetic and supportive of child abuse.

Have you not received the file?

Oh dear, since privatisation the Royal Mail's standards have fallen haven't they?

It's a shame re-nationalisation wasn't in the Labour Manifesto.........never mind I will check if I have a copy.

Standby.

 

[El Presidente]

Have you not received the file?

Oh dear, since privatisation the Royal Mail's standards have fallen haven't they?

It's a shame re-nationalisation wasn't in the Labour Manifesto.........never mind I will check if I have a copy.

Standby.

I look forward to receiving it. Failure to back up your accusations would of course make you nothing more than a cheap shot liar, and you're not one of those, are you?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Sure, but without any narrative this is a completely meaningless binary point.

It is not possible to say something is bad without context.

If you had been punched in the face in the pub, and went up the hospital with a black eye, and sat next to a bloke who had lost both his arms in a hay-bailing accident, would you moan to him about your misfortune?

Because that is what you are doing now.

So we can't disscuss people dying and the reforms that have pushed them to take their lives, because that would be "meaningless" unless we first discuss Labour and their failings? I fail to see what the Iraq War or Rotherham has to do with welfare reform. I can only assume that because you think the aformentioned are subjectively worse I therefore have no right to criticise the Tories?

 

[Nibble]

Anyone seen the CCTV footage of the vandal who defaced the memorial? Have they been named yet?

 

[cunning fergus]

If you accused someone of being sympathetic to paedophiles and child abuse because they have an alternate political view to you, would that be justified.

If you've got the evidence to back it up, then why not show it?

An insinuation is different to an accusation.

Your contribution to the recent Rotherham thread (following the revelation that the abuse was known for years) was to cut and paste the lyrics from T'Pau's China in Your hand song, and the reference the meaningful nature of the lyrics (#deep, as I seem to recall). True?

That's your right, and if that is all you have to add to that thread about the dereliction of duty by a Labour Council to the mass rape of its most vulnerable children, that's fine by me too, but don't come the victim if I give you a volley about such an high minded attitude being consistent with those that worked for the council.

Chasing me round the forum like a demented Duncan Norvelle is not going to help either is it?

 

[El Presidente]

An insinuation is different to an accusation.

Your contribution to the recent Rotherham thread (following the revelation that the abuse was known for years) was to cut and paste the lyrics from T'Pau's China in Your hand song, and the reference the meaningful nature of the lyrics (#deep, as I seem to recall). True?

That's your right, and if that is all you have to add to that thread about the dereliction of duty by a Labour Council to the mass rape of its most vulnerable children, that's fine by me too, but don't come the victim if I give you a volley about such an high minded attitude being consistent with those that worked for the council.

Chasing me round the forum like a demented Duncan Norvelle is not going to help either is it?

Do you have any evidence to back up your insinuation?

 

[Nibble]

No? Well, be interesting when it's released. That while area is swamped in CCTV so should be quite easy to pick them out.

 

[cunning fergus]

So we can't disscuss people dying and the reforms that have pushed them to take their lives, because that would be "meaningless" unless we first discuss Labour and their failings? I fail to see what the Iraq War or Rotherham has to do with welfare reform. I can only assume that because you think the aformentioned are subjectively worse I therefore have no right to criticise the Tories?

Of course not, it's all bad, but everything is relative, my God relativism lives on this forum. You can moan about the misery of tory policies, however (so far) they pale into insignificance with some of Labour's policy decisions.

For example, tuition fees were introduced by Labour universally in 2004, now they moan about how much they are.

If you took the point on a narrow basis maybe they are too high, but then they were the party that introduced them.

Context is everything.

And believe me, I am not defending the Tories.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You know it's not compulsory to use NSC don't you ?

Just need to point out here that I did not make this post against Bozza, it really was a post by somebody else that I was trying to quote, and criticise I hasten to add!

 

[El Presidente]

Of course not, it's all bad, but everything is relative, my God relativism lives on this forum. You can moan about the misery of tory policies, however (so far) they pale into insignificance with some of Labour's policy decisions.

For example, tuition fees were introduced by Labour universally in 2004, now they moan about how much they are.

If you took the point on a narrow basis maybe they are too high, but then they were the party that introduced them.

Context is everything.

And believe me, I am not defending the Tories.

Where do you stand on the shut down of Remploy factories by IDS?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Or getting the Torys' mates to pay the correct amount of tax.

Ahh, leftie NDB.

 

[cunning fergus]

Do you have any evidence to back up your insinuation?

Well, was your contribution to the recent Rotherham abuse thread to cut and paste the lyrics from China In Your Hand, with an additional meaningful note #deep?

If it was, then my insinuation is that such a supercilious attitude and patronising post would be consistent with the kind of attitude of the people that allowed such a horrific event to happen.

Maybe you thought it would be a joke, I don't know.........it didn't strike me as funny.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Of course not, it's all bad, but everything is relative, my God relativism lives on this forum. You can moan about the misery of tory policies, however (so far) they pale into insignificance with some of Labour's policy decisions.

For example, tuition fees were introduced by Labour universally in 2004, now they moan about how much they are.

If you took the point on a narrow basis maybe they are too high, but then they were the party that introduced them.

Context is everything.

And believe me, I am not defending the Tories.

I'm sure the families and friends of those affected wouldn't call the loss of life "insignificant". And where does this blame game of yours end? Shall we take a trip down memory lane with a score card to decide which politcal party has commited more evils than the other? Is the one with less screw ups exempt from blame or responsibility forever or just until they do something so bad the scores even out? Do away goals count?

 

[El Presidente]

Well, was your contribution to the recent Rotherham abuse thread to cut and paste the lyrics from China In Your Hand, with an additional meaningful note #deep?

If it was, then my insinuation is that such a supercilious attitude and patronising post would be consistent with the kind of attitude of the people that allowed such a horrific event to happen.

Maybe you thought it would be a joke, I don't know.........it didn't strike me as funny.

My contribution was to reply to your Orwell comment.

I also pointed out that South Yorkshire police turned a blind eye to the events taking place, if you think it's all to do with Labour and is party politically motivated, that's your right.

But as far as I'm aware local councils aren't able to prevent police investigations or prosecutions.

Abuse has been going on for decades, the truth suppressed by the Catholic Church, Freemasons, the Scout movement and politicians of all persuasions, why turn it into a party political scoring match?

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm sure the families and friends of those affected wouldn't call the loss of life "insignificant". And where does this blame game of yours end? Shall we take a trip down memory lane with a score card to decide which politcal party has commited more evils than the other? Is the one with less screw ups exempt from blame or responsibility forever or just until they do something so bad the scores even out? Do away goals count?

No, I am sure they don't, but I will repeat context is everything.

If you disagree with that view, fine, but taking your attitude through to its logical conclusion you will spend your life in a state of perpetual outrage...........maybe that is what you do?