How much time do with give him though? The bloke has had more chances than AJ. Been a virtual ever stay in our midfield since he was signed.
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[Albion] Propper
- Thread starter timbha
- Start date
How much time do with give him though? The bloke has had more chances than AJ. Been a virtual ever stay in our midfield since he was signed.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
You do have the capacity to do that to people.
I think you’re off their Xmas card list.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
One of our most consistent PL performers, he’s been a mainstay because he has been able to carry out 2 different manager’s tactical instructions to the letter. What do you mean ‘chances’ - he’s nailed down his place in the team through hard work and consistency. You not rating him is irrelevant really.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,777
You do have the capacity to do that to people.
He can’t handle the truth!! He comes on here and gets all personal because of a different opinion. Silly boy deserves silly response. I suspect he’s just as upset about the result as I was, only he’s mistargeting his anger. As you say, definitely off the Xmas card list. Possibly Easter too...
We have to agree to differ. Consistently mediocre. And evidently the fan base is split on this topic.
Gives the ball away, struggles with first time passes playing from the back (this is why I think Potter will mainly replace him). Zero assists, zero goals. Flakes out of tackles and can’t head the ball.
Game of opinions. I guess we will see what GP does, he has the main opinion.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Neither Hughton or Potter barely ever dropped him. With Alzate, Bissouma and Stephens, Potter in particular has had plenty of opportunities to leave him out. Let’s not forget he regularly makes the Dutch team. I think I might side with the 2 managers and international caps than a handful of fans on NSC.
I’ll add Jack Cork rarely scores or provides assists, similar players, do you think Dyche doesn’t value him because of that?
blue-shifted
Banned
As ever with these threads, the truth about Davy is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes being argued. The whole time he has been with us, he has had extended periods of both good and bad form.
The way I see it, is that he's a player that improves our squad, but (assuming he stays) has a starting place which is vulnerable to a summer purchase, the emergence of a youngster and a tactical reshuffle.
In particular, I think Mooy is far more adept at receiving the ball from the keeper and moving it on first time than Davy. I Davy's form doesn't improve it wouldn't surprise me to see something more like ...
---------------Ryan
Lamptey Webby Dunk Burn
--------Bissouma Mooy
----Gross Alexis Trossard
-------------Maupay
The way I see it, is that he's a player that improves our squad, but (assuming he stays) has a starting place which is vulnerable to a summer purchase, the emergence of a youngster and a tactical reshuffle.
In particular, I think Mooy is far more adept at receiving the ball from the keeper and moving it on first time than Davy. I Davy's form doesn't improve it wouldn't surprise me to see something more like ...
---------------Ryan
Lamptey Webby Dunk Burn
--------Bissouma Mooy
----Gross Alexis Trossard
-------------Maupay
blue-shifted
Banned
I could add, that Stephens is (widely acknowledged to be) a waning force, Alzate is in his breakthrough season and hasn't been fit for most of it and Bissouma, great as he has been recently wasn't featuring much, either for Potter or Hughton before that. Personally I don't think we've had huge strength in depth in midfield.
As for the Jack Cork point. I think Burnley have a greater variety of goalscorers than we do. Our key problem is getting goals from other areas. Davy looks to me, highly unconvincing every time he lines one up and rarely gets into the box from open play. (When on form, terrific in the middle third, but even then not much good anywhere other than this).
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
His scoring and craft around the box is a weakness no doubt. But modern tactics, goals don’t come from these CMs anymore, attacking midfielder like a Gross sat in front, yeah but every team has CMs that play almost every game and don’t score or assist. The comment about giving the ball away, I bet his stats don’t actually back this up either.
I half agree with what you’re saying. But I think it’s unrealistic for Potter to make wholesale changes in his first season. We will find out his real thoughts on Davy next year.
Jack Cork is not a fair comparison as Dyche does not ask his players to play the way Potter does his. Here’s an example of Davy not being comfortable with quick first time passes from the back, and why I think GP will replace him longterm:
https://twitter.com/SkySports/status/1280946427523448832
No one is immune from having a bad game at this level and we had a few below par on Saturday. Some of them will get the benefit of the doubt.
I think we have all had more than enough opportunity to weigh up the pros and cons of Mr Propper. I have come to the conclusion that for all his nice touches, he isn't offering us enough going forward and when you are looking around for people who have underperformed in a heavy defeat his name always seems to be in the frame.
I hope Potter takes a fresh look at central midfield next season, as I think it may be time to freshen things up there.
I think we have all had more than enough opportunity to weigh up the pros and cons of Mr Propper. I have come to the conclusion that for all his nice touches, he isn't offering us enough going forward and when you are looking around for people who have underperformed in a heavy defeat his name always seems to be in the frame.
I hope Potter takes a fresh look at central midfield next season, as I think it may be time to freshen things up there.
I actually didn’t have an opinion on Propper, but a friend of mine does. Once we were 2 goals down to City I decided to switch my attention to Davy.
Now, we were playing one of the genuinely top sides in the world, but what I saw really surprised me. Short passing was OK but generally was not in any way ambitious. Forward passing was rare, accuracy of simple passes was sporadic to say the least. I saw zero attempts to advance up the pitch with speed at all, just a canter at best. I didn’t see him make a genuine tackle rather than just poke a toe in, I do not recall him making a header, I do recall him seriously being all alone in our box for what I think was City’s fourth, when he should have at least been making a challenge.
Then I read about the lack of assists, let alone goals. Mr Propper really will be under scrutiny for the next few games.
Now, we were playing one of the genuinely top sides in the world, but what I saw really surprised me. Short passing was OK but generally was not in any way ambitious. Forward passing was rare, accuracy of simple passes was sporadic to say the least. I saw zero attempts to advance up the pitch with speed at all, just a canter at best. I didn’t see him make a genuine tackle rather than just poke a toe in, I do not recall him making a header, I do recall him seriously being all alone in our box for what I think was City’s fourth, when he should have at least been making a challenge.
Then I read about the lack of assists, let alone goals. Mr Propper really will be under scrutiny for the next few games.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
The only player not under scrutiny to my mind is Dunk. We have youngsters on the way up ready to prove themselves, we have some good solid performers, but in terms of a roll call of players you could improve, I’d honestly say Dunk is the only absolutely nailed on top 10 no problems player.
The question therefore remains as to where the weakest links are, you might only be able to improve 2 or 3 links in your chain, so where do you prioritise that? For me it’s not Propper, that can wait as he’s a solid enough performer.
The question therefore remains as to where the weakest links are, you might only be able to improve 2 or 3 links in your chain, so where do you prioritise that? For me it’s not Propper, that can wait as he’s a solid enough performer.
For the life of me, I just do not see what he does well. He can't tackle, certainly can't head the ball (you have to put yourself in a position to compete, he stands off, always!), he strolls around when he should be busting a gut to retreat when we are defending and he never takes the ball at his feet and burst forwards. If anyone can enlighten me please do. This has nothing to do with his mistake but his overall game play every game.
symyjym
Banned
Well I am shocked at these stats if true, because Warren Aspinall has pointed out how wasteful he can be when he boots straight out for a throw in so it's not just me who has noticed it. As I said he will do it once or twice a game, but this stat is not included.
If there were any stats for goalkeepers kicking the ball straight out for a throw in over a season, I would like to see the table for that. Otherwise this table is saying that he is the best goalkeeper in the world but playing in a really shit team.
Albion Dan
Banned
Iver always been a Propper fan but his form and effort since re start have been abysmal. Doesn't even chase back when he's given the ball away for the upmteenth time. If he doesn't buck up get him out.
I'm a fan too and feel a bit disloyal to be backing up your comments.
I like the playing out from the back idea; Man City and Liverpool have had great success with it. But we don't have their quality of players to be able to do it. We either end up tappying it around for a few passes then end up hoofing it or we give the ball away and give the opponents an opportunity. Propper isn't our only player who can't play the tappy in and around our own box kind of game.
If we are going to persist with the current "from the back" style then we need to replace Davy with a player more competent in that role.
albionalex
Well-known member
So that's 1 example out of literally thousands of passes.
albionalex
Well-known member
'If true' lol.
symyjym
Banned
Yes it's certainly true that Ryan boots the ball out for a throw in once or twice a game. Twice against Man City. These stats are not included.