Prevent Donald Trump from making a state visit to the United Kingdom - petition

[The Birdman]

I would let him come and line the route and then turn our backs on him in silence also the bookies are giving low odds on 50/50 he will still be in power in a years time.

 

[symyjym]

I'm not suggesting a public 3 month proces, or giving Daesh notice of anything.

He circumvented key internal departments until the order was signed and then overruled their reasonable guidance which would have made the order far more effectual and less prone to either confusion or litigation (which is already starting).

It is a startlingly incompetent move.

What is the real problem? Is it the ban or the way he went about it? Would there have been less fuss, no protests and no petitions if he signed the ban under "guidence"?

 

[highflyer]

The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies “something not desirable”. - George Orwell 'Politics and the English Language'

Whatever word is used there are many deeply concerning things about the way Trump is going about things - his treatment of the media, his treatment of government employees, his deliberate disregard for truth and his use of executive orders. His whole campaign and now his Presidency has been based on the deliberate creation of division, and a fear of 'others'. Given that the word facism is generally linked to extreme authoritarianism and nationalism I personally don't think it is unreasonable to say it is moving in that direction. Others obviously think it's all fine as he was democratically elected so can do whatever he wants. Time will tell, but putting Steve Brannon in such a position of influence should ring big alarm bells.

It is not just about what he is creating (a dangerous, unstable, incompetent but still immensely powerful regime) but also what what he is destroying in the process.

And for those that roll out the 'other regimes are as bad and we gave them state visits' argument (and those that just enjoy seeing Piers Morgan make a complete tit of himself): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-morgan-clash-over-anti-trump-protests-video

 

[Whoislloydy]

It's going to cost £10m in policing alone, damn foreigners coming over costing us money....

 

[Buzzer]

Whatever word is used there are many deeply concerning things about the way Trump is going about things - his treatment of the media, his treatment of government employees, his deliberate disregard for truth and his use of executive orders. His whole campaign and now his Presidency has been based on the deliberate creation of division, and a fear of 'others'. Given that the word facism is generally linked to extreme authoritarianism and nationalism I personally don't think it is unreasonable to say it is moving in that direction. Others obviously think it's all fine as he was democratically elected so can do whatever he wants. Time will tell, but putting Steve Brannon in such a position of influence should ring big alarm bells.

It is not just about what he is creating (a dangerous, unstable, incompetent but still immensely powerful regime) but also what what he is destroying in the process.

And for those that roll out the 'other regimes are as bad and we gave them state visits' argument (and those that just enjoy seeing Piers Morgan make a complete tit of himself): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-morgan-clash-over-anti-trump-protests-video

But Maoism and Stalinism is also linked to extreme authoritarianism and nationalism - it's not unique to fascism! Trump may be many bad things but he is not and never will be a fascist. He's far too much of a capitalist ever to want to chuck all that away in the name of fascism. By all means protest about Trump and highlight his rather worrying diktats but please stop using the word fascist to mean anyone who is authoritarian. It does seem to be the case nowadays that everything that people hate is literally Hitler.. Your example is exactly what Orwell was getting at.

I think there's just a little too much stretching of the truth going on in the attempt to paint Trump as a wannabe-Hitler. Stephen Pollard, the Jewish Chronicle editor, debunks this very succinctly in this article here: http://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...mp-he-not-Hitler-US-president-Stephen-Pollard

 

[ROKERITE]

Over 200,000 have signed the petition now, that he SHOULD make a state visit. There is so much I dislike about Trump's policies but the more the guardianistas protest and rail against him the more I support his state visit. Yes, there'll be a million and a half of the usual "look at me virtue signallers" demonstrating but so what. The decent silent majority of this country won't care and neither will he as he sweeps by in his limousine or overhead in his helicopter. Well Done Theresa The Achiever.

 

[Two Professors]

so, the press spokesman who apparently knows this was not a Muslim attack, and that the terrorist is in fact a Trump supporting, Islamaphobic Canadian, lunatic who is not on anybodies radar, pipes up with... '“We condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant, and why the president is taking steps to be proactive, rather than reactive, when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,”

This was from Spicers press conferance on Monday. Not Tuesday.

Well you are obviously sticking to your version of history,however you make it up.A little bit of research instead of empty rhetoric on your part would show your other comments up as equally inane.

But I suppose,even if you read that,in your deranged view it will still be Trump's fault.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

YouGov Poll in the Times today - 49% say State visit should go ahead, 36% should be cancelled.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

 

[highflyer]

Over 200,000 have signed the petition now, that he SHOULD make a state visit. There is so much I dislike about Trump's policies but the more the guardianistas protest and rail against him the more I support his state visit. Yes, there'll be a million and a half of the usual "look at me virtue signallers" demonstrating but so what. The decent silent majority of this country won't care and neither will he as he sweeps by in his limousine or overhead in his helicopter. Well Done Theresa The Achiever.

If he does visit it is going to be properly hilarious
He's a pantomime villain and we just love that over here - not sure how well he will cope with the abuse!

 

[highflyer]

YouGov Poll in the Times today - 49% say State visit should go ahead, 36% should be cancelled.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

I call bullshit

'The poll asked if the visit should go ahead at all, the petition is about the more technical issue of whether it should be downgraded from a full State Visit'

 

[MattBackHome]

What is the real problem? Is it the ban or the way he went about it? Would there have been less fuss, no protests and no petitions if he signed the ban under "guidence"?

The real problem? From my perspective the way the order was executed is more troubling than the order itself, as it is evidence of either a failure to understand the implications of going off half-cocked, or worse a lack of care as to whether the order achieves it's stated intention or not.

There would certainly have been less fuss if he had received guidance at the correct time; see for example the chaos regarding people with valid immigration documents being detained. All of that could have been avoided with a perfunctory proof-read (and sign off) from a few key people.

I don't care about the protests and petitions; as [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] points out it's useful to try and extract the hysteria and hyperbole.

 

[nicko31]

You do wonder whether this all a minor side show, Trump's posturing on China is more worrying. Why get involved over Taiwan, just leave it alone Donald?

Anyway, Australia's favourite son has recently done a film on his concerns about the upcoming situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3hbtM_NJ0s

 

[symyjym]

The real problem? From my perspective the way the order was executed is more troubling than the order itself, as it is evidence of either a failure to understand the implications of going off half-cocked, or worse a lack of care as to whether the order achieves it's stated intention or not.

There would certainly have been less fuss if he had received guidance at the correct time; see for example the chaos regarding people with valid immigration documents being detained. All of that could have been avoided with a perfunctory proof-read (and sign off) from a few key people.

I don't care about the protests and petitions; as [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] points out it's useful to try and extract the hysteria and hyperbole.

If it had gone through a more formal process there would have still been just as much hysteria. Yes it could have probably been done differently but the outcome would have been the same. We don't know what is going to be happening in the banned named Daesh hotspot countries over the next few months. I would only say that Iran shouldn't be on that list, but I am sure that will be lifted soon.

Holidays in Somalia are really cheap these days. Great week away for the family. People should protest by going to the countries and help the tourism industry out there.

 

[ROKERITE]

You do wonder whether this all a minor side show, Trump's posturing on China is more worrying. Why get involved over Taiwan, just leave it alone Donald?

Anyway, Australia's favourite son has recently done a film on his concerns about the upcoming situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3hbtM_NJ0s

Unusual though it might be for me to agree with a leftist (that's Pilger, I don't know what you are) and while refusing to watch anything the obnoxious Pilger might do, China is a concern. A few years ago the right of centre Niall Ferguson did a series on China. He made the point that the rise of China economically might be seen as threatening; but the rise of China militarily should scare people more. If China is baulked economically it may well decide it must go down the military route. The USA owes a great deal of money to China (their fault not China's) and if Trump thinks it can renege on its debts that is monumentally more important and worrying than the actions so far which have been getting the usual suspects' knickers all twisted.

 

[Diablo]

Over 200,000 have signed the petition now, that he SHOULD make a state visit. There is so much I dislike about Trump's policies but the more the guardianistas protest and rail against him the more I support his state visit. Yes, there'll be a million and a half of the usual "look at me virtue signallers" demonstrating but so what. The decent silent majority of this country won't care and neither will he as he sweeps by in his limousine or overhead in his helicopter. Well Done Theresa The Achiever.

Have just voted on the SHOULD petition....

 

[daveinprague]

Well you are obviously sticking to your version of history,however you make it up.A little bit of research instead of empty rhetoric on your part would show your other comments up as equally inane.
View attachment 81776
But I suppose,even if you read that,in your deranged view it will still be Trump's fault.

Well, you have completely lost your mind now. I have never said that it was Trumps fault. I stated that the lunatic was a Trump fan.
He was. He was also a fan of Le Penn, and had islamaphobic views. I can only imagine you are saying that i think it was Trumps fault as way to divert attention away from what we were actually discussing. .You questioned why i thought that Trump thought this was an Islamic attack. His Press spokesman gives you the answer. When Spicer made his press statement... on Monday... not Tuesday as you seem to think (or deliberately lied to bolster your argument), and an hour after Fox tweeted that one of the suspects was of Moroccan origin, Spicers words can only indicate that they thought it was an Islamic attack, otherwise its a completely idiotic statement.
Im not trying change history.. you are. Alternative facts im guessing.

 

[MattBackHome]

If it had gone through a more formal process there would have still been just as much hysteria. Yes it could have probably been done differently but the outcome would have been the same. We don't know what is going to be happening in the banned named Daesh hotspot countries over the next few months. I would only say that Iran shouldn't be on that list, but I am sure that will be lifted soon.

I think you're right that there would have been just as much hysteria, if you mean in terms of protests etc.

But the material outcome to detainees would undoubtedly have been significantly different had the order been reviewed by the departments which usually are involved. Administration officials at the DoHS were only briefed at the point that he was signing the order. Confusion reigned well past Friday night and into Saturday. At one point border control, when confronted with refugees, were referring questions directly to the president himself.

Then there's the impact on the Govt. itself. Issuing something like this without the the Office of Legal Counsel reviewing is staggeringly incompetent and opens them up to a massive bundle of litigation they could (I presume) do without in the coming months. This will surely undermine the desired effect of the order.

Good to be able to have a reasoned discussion on this sort of thing BTW

 

[Two Professors]

Well, you have completely lost your mind now. I have never said that it was Trumps fault. I stated that the lunatic was a Trump fan.
He was. He was also a fan of Le Penn, and had islamaphobic views. I can only imagine you are saying that i think it was Trumps fault as way to divert attention away from what we were actually discussing. .You questioned why i thought that Trump thought this was an Islamic attack. His Press spokesman gives you the answer. When Spicer made his press statement... on Monday... not Tuesday as you seem to think (or deliberately lied to bolster your argument), and an hour after Fox tweeted that one of the suspects was of Moroccan origin, Spicers words can only indicate that they thought it was an Islamic attack, otherwise its a completely idiotic statement.
Im not trying change history.. you are. Alternative facts im guessing.

Alternative facts from BBC News?Now I know you've really lost the plot!Where is the proof he was a Trump fan,apart from in your head?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Anyway, Australia's favourite son has recently done a film on his concerns about the upcoming situation.

Warnie is making films? Get out of here!

 

[Two Professors]

Well, you have completely lost your mind now. I have never said that it was Trumps fault. I stated that the lunatic was a Trump fan.
He was. He was also a fan of Le Penn, and had islamaphobic views. I can only imagine you are saying that i think it was Trumps fault as way to divert attention away from what we were actually discussing. .You questioned why i thought that Trump thought this was an Islamic attack. His Press spokesman gives you the answer. When Spicer made his press statement... on Monday... not Tuesday as you seem to think (or deliberately lied to bolster your argument), and an hour after Fox tweeted that one of the suspects was of Moroccan origin, Spicers words can only indicate that they thought it was an Islamic attack, otherwise its a completely idiotic statement.
Im not trying change history.. you are. Alternative facts im guessing.

I will show you this quote from BBC News again which you obviously didn't read last time.It clearly shows the quote being TUESDAY,no matter how often you bluster otherwise.