Prevent Donald Trump from making a state visit to the United Kingdom - petition

[Buzzer]

A view, but not one that I share.

I would suspect that anyone has studied 20th Century history would be aware that Mussolini defined fascism, with Hitler's Germany being a more extreme version

I have studied it and still do. Every single one of those tell-tale signs you listed could equally apply to what happened in Soviet Russia or post-war China but neither of those regimes were fascist and if you really want to look for people who defined fascism then you need to read up on Houston Stewart Chamberlain. He was selling it to anyone who would listen long before Mussolini took office.

I think as well, it's worth reading why Orwell wrote that quote. He knew what he was talking about,

 

[daveinprague]

I will try to make this as easy as I can for you.The attack was on Monday.That news release was on Tuesday.The attacker's identity was known on the Monday.So the Trump spokesman knew it was not a muslim attack.You cut off the line showing the statement was released Tuesday to cover that up.

so, the press spokesman who apparently knows this was not a Muslim attack, and that the terrorist is in fact a Trump supporting, Islamaphobic Canadian, lunatic who is not on anybodies radar, pipes up with... '“We condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant, and why the president is taking steps to be proactive, rather than reactive, when it comes to our nation’s safety and security,”

This was from Spicers press conferance on Monday. Not Tuesday.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I find ITN's line that Trumps ban will assist ISIS recruitment a bit odd. Can't imagine that the recruitment process is based on a logical assessment of the facts somehow. I know Amber Rudd said possibly it might assist them, but ITN now presenting that as irrefutably the UK government position.

 

[beorhthelm]

At least he ran it past the electorate ........

no he didnt. he stated a broad policy. the problems he has is with the implementation, not the policy. he's broken laws and treaties, in the opinion of judges government officials and attoney general, he had his assistant issue corrections on the hoof, while immigration officials at airports and his embassies abroad didnt know the details and issued conflicting advice. the essential problem is he doesnt actual have people in place yet (only a handful of his cabinet have been selected and taken office), while trying to engage in complicated areas of politics and law without a clue or support of anyone outside his immediate circle of advisors..

 

[pastafarian]

I would suspect that anyone has studied 20th Century history would be aware that Mussolini defined fascism, with Hitler's Germany being a more extreme version

Considering the wealth of available study material freely available on real actual fascism and fascist dictators and its also one of those subjects that tends to stick in the noggin from ones school days. It does beg the question to those demonstrators and even those writing on here claiming Trump is a fascist ......what on earth have you been reading and would you like some help?

 

[symyjym]

thats horse crap, he didnt even run it past people in his own cabinet, including those departments responsible for enforcing it. it doesnt need 3 months, 3 days or even 3 hours consultation would have been a good idea.

He would have run it past the cabinet members who mattered. Do you know who he did and didn't speak to? The US congress are going to be crying about everything because they lost, and they are the same ones with the destructive pro regime change ethics.

 

[nicko31]

So no one from Trump's banned list of 7 had been involved in a terrorist act in the US since 911

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...here-been-terrorist-attacks-post-911-countri/

What is it with them?

 

[symyjym]

I find ITN's line that Trumps ban will assist ISIS recruitment a bit odd. Can't imagine that the recruitment process is based on a logical assessment of the facts somehow. I know Amber Rudd said possibly it might assist them, but ITN now presenting that as irrefutably the UK government position.

They said that Russia's involvement in Syria will assist Daesh, but since the US retreated their support, for the so called rebels, Turkey, Iran and Russia have got together and we had a ceasefire with safe passage, discussions between the groups and government in Kazakhstan last week, and a new Syrian constitution being worked out now. The US turned its back on Syria 6-7 weeks ago and suddenly there is progress.

 

[symyjym]

So no one from Trump's banned list of 7 had been involved in a terrorist act in the US since 911

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...here-been-terrorist-attacks-post-911-countri/

What is it with them?

Maybe it's because Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen are all Daesh hotspots Iran will be off that list soon.

 

[beorhthelm]

He would have run it past the cabinet members who mattered.

thats not what they are saying, news outlets such as Fox are reporting the key people weren't informed. and congress is Republican, so im not realy sure where you're coming from.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ah, The Bouncing Czech as known to Private Eye. Marvellous businessman and philanthropist ... till he mysteriously jumped ship.

The interesting thing is towards the back of the Eye, published just before he 'tripped overboard' is a cryptic item that clearly predicts the plunge . . . . my guess is he is still living happily somewhere.... or at least, did so long after his suppsed demise. . . . . you read it here first ;-)

 

[symyjym]

thats not what they are saying, news outlets such as Fox are reporting the key people weren't informed. and congress is Republican, so im not realy sure where you're coming from.

He would have certainly discussed it with members of his cabinet like Rex Tillerson and James Mattis. You don't know what cabinet members he did or didn't discuss with?

The news and media hated him before he became president and that is not going to change. They will be on his ar5e and snapping at his heels for the whole of his term in office.

 

[pastafarian]

So no one from Trump's banned list of 7 had been involved in a terrorist act in the US since 911

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...here-been-terrorist-attacks-post-911-countri/

What is it with them?

What is it with these countries?

well thats down to the Secretary of Homeland Security to determine in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence when assessing a threat to the USA
There is Criteria laid down in legislation though brought in by the Obama administration in how to identify a nation when seeking to enhance security.

(I) whether the presence of an alien in the country or area increases the likelihood that the alien is a credible threat to the national security of the United States;

“(II) whether a foreign terrorist organization has a significant presence in the country or area; and

“(III) whether the country or area is a safe haven for terrorists.

and why does it have to involve a deadly attack before being considered dangerous by some people.
There is such a thing as those helping with planning, finance,training and logistics.

 

[AZ Gull]

He would have certainly discussed it with members of his cabinet like Rex Tillerson and James Mattis. You don't know what cabinet members he did or didn't discuss with?

And neither do you - Trump fires Justice Dept. head over executive order defiance

At least three top national security officials — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly and Rex Tillerson, who is awaiting confirmation to lead the State Department — have told associates they were not aware of details of the directive until around the time Trump signed it. Leading intelligence officials were also left largely in the dark, according to U.S. officials.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

thats not what they are saying, news outlets such as Fox are reporting the key people weren't informed. and congress is Republican, so im not realy sure where you're coming from.

Fox is their version of The Sun

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[symyjym]

And neither do you - Trump fires Justice Dept. head over executive order defiance

Fair enough but they have only said they were not aware of the details. That doesn't mean that he hadn't discussed it with them.

 

[sydney]

Prob because due to Brexit we are out on our own we have to have some relationship with the US to survive and we are essentially going to be in league with a fascist madman. Some people take exception to that. If you don't understand that then you don't understand whats going on in the western world of late.

i understand it very well ....if you care to read my previous post you may see........however , currently , people taking exception to the election and visit of a foreign president will have absolutely zero effect at a political level......the nobs will carry on regardless and do exactly as they want , under a state of emergency if they have to................unfortunately the lunatics are pretty close to taking over the asylum ......imho.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I know one thing. It couldn't make some Americans any happier than to have President Trump leave the country for a trip to the UK. At least then he wouldn't be continuing the flow of illegal executive orders from the White House for the time he's visiting our country.

 

[MattBackHome]

A Trump advisor has just been on C4 news, she explained to John Snow that all those countries are unable to provide any intelligence on their travelling citizens, unlike other countries, including Muslim ones, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

All very logical when the hysteria and hyperbole is extracted from the febrile narrative of hatred and racism.

Which presumably is a reason for those 7 countries to be identified under the previous administration. For me though it still doesn't satisfactorily explain what specific threat has developed to warrant such an order now (or last week).

I couldn't agree more with you about extracting the hysteria and hyperbole.

 

[MattBackHome]

If you let the enemy know in advance what you want to do, then your enemy will use that time to their advantage. By the time it goes through a 3 month process they could smuggle hundreds of Daesh in under the guise of refugees. You cannot give Daesh 3 months to get who they can in.

It may sound unfair but it is logical with the big fight against Daesh coming soon.

I'm not suggesting a public 3 month proces, or giving Daesh notice of anything.

He circumvented key internal departments until the order was signed and then overruled their reasonable guidance which would have made the order far more effectual and less prone to either confusion or litigation (which is already starting).

It is a startlingly incompetent move.