Prayers for Madeleine -- What's The Point?

[Starry]

Lots of thoughtful answers here.
But none to the central question: What kind of 'God' is it that might only help a defenceless child if enough people pray for it?

You can say that about anything though, not just Madeleine's disappearance.

Ack. I edited out the long spiel that went with this, probably too personal or something and I don't particularly want to be racked over the coals for it!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Lots of thoughtful answers here.
But none to the central question: What kind of 'God' is it that might only help a defenceless child if enough people pray for it?

You tell us.

It seems to me that the "kind of God" that you are conjuring up is likely to be seen by most believers as a demon, invented by people who claim to have no beliefs, in order to undermine the faith of millions.

I'm no believer, but I find the scoffing of many non-believers rather distasteful.

 

[Yorkie]

You tell us.

It seems to me that the "kind of God" that you are conjuring up is likely to be seen by most believers as a demon, invented by people who claim to have no beliefs, in order to undermine the faith of millions.

I'm no believer, but I find the scoffing of many non-believers rather distasteful.

Excellent post.

 

[NMH]

To even intimate a 'kind of' or 'type' of God, is to (correctly) say that people make up a version to suit their choice - which of course, they do.
If God that created all things knows your desires, then why even feel the need to pray?
There would be NO POINT in a species or a world where man could hope to influence fact, nature of another man or woman's desires, by simply asking that it be done.

No, man has to act, man has to do something by himself, and let the desire, and intelligence he has, be the factor that finds success.

Perhaps in this particular case, there is a couple who have been on an adoption pursuit, but have, strangely, dropped their interest.
Maybe a woman has suddenly been shopping for children's products.
Perhaps, a kiddie porn ring have been suddenly quiet and more reclusive than usual.

I have a feeling the perps will only drop their guard in accordance with the lowering of speculation, police activity, and of media interest.

 

[Dandyman]

You tell us.

It seems to me that the "kind of God" that you are conjuring up is likely to be seen by most believers as a demon, invented by people who claim to have no beliefs, in order to undermine the faith of millions.

I'm no believer, but I find the scoffing of many non-believers rather distasteful.

With all due respect Lord B, I find my taxes being used to support sectarian education, the state demanding an act of collective daily worship in schools, unelected Bishops having an autoamtic right to decide on the laws that govern me, a publicly funded broadcaster puming out other people'ssuperstition, people with no qualification other than the same ludicrous fantasies sitting on government appointed committees, etc, etc, all rather distasteful.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

I'd agree with you on wanting a more secular state, Dandyman and a good starter would be removing the ludicrous role of the monarchy as some sort of hotline to an Anglican God.

However, I still think that (in the context of this topic) anyone who finds comfort in a faith probably doesn't need to be told it's a complete waste of time. Any more than I want them to tell me I am wrong for being a non-believer.

 

[Giraffe]

There is nothing wrong with believing in good. I don't believe in religion or in fact "a god". However I do believe that there is good and bad, and that good can conquor bad. I also believe that the human mind is a very powerful thing that most people do not understand or harness to anything like 10% of its potential. I therefore believe that prayer can to some extent harness this power and hence in times of difficulty for a nation or the world the power of prayer and the use of good can be a very powerful tool.

 

[Dandyman]

I'd agree with you on wanting a more secular state, Dandyman and a good starter would be removing the ludicrous role of the monarchy as some sort of hotline to an Anglican God.

However, I still think that (in the context of this topic) anyone who finds comfort in a faith probably doesn't need to be told it's a complete waste of time. Any more than I want them to tell me I am wrong for being a non-believer.

If this was being read by Madeleine's family then I would maintain a discrete silence but, again with all respect, how do we move society forward unless people are prepared to challenge each others beliefs ?

 

[Yorkie]

Move society forward? I always thought that people were free to practise their beliefs.
Am I to be moved forward?

 

[Dandyman]

Move society forward? I always thought that people were free to practise their beliefs.
Am I to be moved forward?

You can believe what you like, Yorkie, but why should I have to subsidise your beliefs or accept the state privileging them over anyone elses value system ?

 

[Yorkie]

You can believe what you like, Yorkie, but why should I have to subsidise your beliefs or accept the state privileging them over anyone elses value system ?

I'm not asking you to and I would be quite happy for church and state to part company. You not subsidising my beliefs because I am not Church of England.

 

[Dandyman]

I'm not asking you to and I would be quite happy for church and state to part company. You not subsidising my beliefs because I am not Church of England.

My maternal forebearers include Scots non-conformists so yours is a position that I feel able to live easily enough with provided we had a properly secualr state that refrained from imposing my beliefs on you or yours on me.

 

[Yorkie]

My maternal forebearers include Scots non-conformists so yours is a position that I feel able to live easily enough with provided we had a properly secualr state that refrained from imposing my beliefs on you or yours on me.

Then we agree.

 

[Buzzer]

I'd agree with you on wanting a more secular state, Dandyman and a good starter would be removing the ludicrous role of the monarchy as some sort of hotline to an Anglican God.

However, I still think that (in the context of this topic) anyone who finds comfort in a faith probably doesn't need to be told it's a complete waste of time. Any more than I want them to tell me I am wrong for being a non-believer.

You're getting the Anglicans mixed up with the papists, Roz. The royals are defenders of the C of E faith. They don't claim to be God's vicar on Earth. They don't claim to have a voice to God any more than a vicar or lay preacher or someone praying to God.

The Catholics on the other hand.....

 

[DTES]

Wow. We've got quite off-topic here.

Back to the original topic - I'm afraid that I do think a lot of the praying is quite literally a waste. Nothing wrong at all with people here praying if it helps them to feel better - there is obviously no harm - but what about those in Portugal? How many man-hours have been spent in churches praying near where she was taken? What would/could have happened if every single one of those man hours was spent searching?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Quite right DTES. If it were me in that situation, I wouldn't be wasting time in a drafty church. I would be pounding the streets with a photo, staying on the move.

Edit: I, too have edited a long spiel for fear of offending anybody.

 

[Buzzer]

By praying together in a church for half an hour or so, perhaps the searchers can feel hope again, feel that they're not alone and have a private weep before setting out again.

Just a suggestion, like.

 

[DTES]

By praying together in a church for half an hour or so, perhaps the searchers can feel hope again, feel that they're not alone and have a private weep before setting out again.

I don't doubt for a second that it helps them to feel together, and to feel better. My point is that I'm perfectly willing to accept the whole of Portugal feeling even more shit if it even slightly increases the chance of the girl being found.

 

[Yorkie]

I don't doubt for a second that it helps them to feel together, and to feel better. My point is that I'm perfectly willing to accept the whole of Portugal feeling even more shit if it even slightly increases the chance of the girl being found.

Which is entirely missing the point.
Prayer brings strength and helps so therefore those that pray would be able to help more.

But then an unbeliever wouldn't believe that and I don't know why I'm even bothering to get drawn into this.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

By praying together in a church for half an hour or so, perhaps the searchers can feel hope again, feel that they're not alone and have a private weep before setting out again.

Just a suggestion, like.

True, but then I can't imagine doing that, even if I were religous. If my child was missing, I wouldn't stop looking to have a 30 minute prayer. How could you stop searching when you have not found her?