Poyet is to blame for the clubs current position

[El Presidente]

The club was on a crest of a wave and doing well was always going to happen moving to a new stadium...It was called the feel good factor.

Do you have any evidence to support this or is it just bluster and opinion masquerading as fact?

 

[Prince Monolulu]

 

[carteater]

Didn't arsenal and Southampton both struggle when they moved grounds? It's far from certain to improve performances.

but their stadiums were built in different circumstances to the amex, we built ours because we got forced out of our old one to gillingham and then an athletic's track we hadn't had a permanent home for over 14 years, they built their's to modernise their clubs.

 

[Hillian1]

Poyet said in an interview after moving to Sunderland " Everything that happens at that club will be my fault"

I thought at the time his ego was running away with him.

I think he may have a point.

 

[chaileyjem]

With a fraction of the budget and all the best players sold from under their noses. Exactly the opposite of what happened when Poyet was here.

.

Fraction of the budget ? Half the playing budget ? Three quarters ?

How much did the playing budget change last year in your view ? From 8th best in the league to what on your view.

In fact didn't oscar have a v. Similar budget last year. ?

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Thats far to sensible a post. I agree with some of it I just think that GP acted like a total cock over a few months with us an arguably wasted the best chance we had of going up by sulking.

Agree...As with your post....Grombleton sent in a good post...Toys,Pram,outta, come to mind.

 

[J2 DOG]

Who !!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Fraction of the budget ? Half the playing budget ? Three quarters ?

How much did the playing budget change last year in your view ? From 8th best in the league to what on your view.

In fact didn't oscar have a v. Similar budget last year. ?

Tony Bloom came out and said he did.

 

[chaileyjem]

Tony Bloom came out and said he did.

Well yes. The idea that since Poyet left , Bloom has left OG and SH with a "fraction" of the budget for their squads doesn't hold up ...

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

but their stadiums were built in different circumstances to the amex, we built ours because we got forced out of our old one to gillingham and then an athletic's track we hadn't had a permanent home for over 14 years, they built their's to modernise their clubs.

For the fans maybe but how much that effects the players I'm not sure, it's not as if they went through it. As a previous poster said it could have turned into a millstone around our necks. Plus our home form wasn't any better than any other team especially those teams that finished within a few points of us

 

[El Presidente]

Well yes. The idea that since Poyet left , Bloom has left OG and SH with a "fraction" of the budget for their squads doesn't hold up ...

Never let facts get in way of a messy divorce though!

 

[Icy Gull]

B

Fraction of the budget ? Half the playing budget ? Three quarters ?

How much did the playing budget change last year in your view ? From 8th best in the league to what on your view.

In fact didn't oscar have a v. Similar budget last year. ?

So Oscar and Sami have been able to spend 3.5 million (cms) and then 2 million (Ulloa) without having to sell players? Bridcutt, Ulloa, Buckley.

I am staggered that any Albion fan believes that Oscar and Sami have been give the budget that Poyet was.

Poyet was allowed to build a team and spend money on it. Oscar and Sami have had to sell players for far more money than they have then been permitted to spend. It is a complet no brainer that Poyet was given the tools to get us to the Premier League and Oscar and Sami have been sold well short in terms of the opportunities afforded them.....imo obviously.

I'm not moaning about it as I understand why but the deification of Poyet as a man who did well with not. Much pisses me off a bit.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

By doing what? - spending £30 million, £40 million, £50 million..... on players with no guarentee of promotion? Whens enough and where do you draw the line? and you assume people at the club have this to actually spend in the first place?

We fought for years to save this club and to get a new ground and you want to risk it all and the clubs future chasing what could be 1 season only in the Premier League?

Pleased to note that there are others who consider that promotion to the Premiership would not be our best choice,Gus knew that he would need even more cash and it was obvious that Bloom had informed him the financial situation would not allow this so it was natural that if he wanted to manage in the top league he would have to move on,which he did.
We have done well to stay in the Championship and with the benefits of our Academy we should be able to attract talented youngsters in due course to progress to our league side plus selling on some of them,this way we should be able to keep a healthy financial situation and maintain a 20,000 attendance in our present league.

Why spend the money you would get in parachute payments trying to get up to be in reciept of parachute payments about equal to what you spent? again with no guarentee of promotion and ever getting them?

This reminds me of the first few seasons at Withdean, we overachieved early with back to back promotions and that lead to the expectation of Championship football when in reality we were a smaller, lower league team than that. 2 near misses in the Championship and now there are those who view us as a Premier League side and we are not.

When we were playing our last season at Withdean, the vast majority of supporters would have been happy with just surviving in the Championship and becoming an established Championship side (with occasional visits to the PL as a bonus) now this is seen as a failure by some,
it just comes across as selfish personal (and fairly unrealistic) demands about the club because they want to see PL football and not interested in what realistic or in the best interests of the club long term.

We have no right to promotion, we have around 10 teams with parachute payments who earn more form that that we do from most of our revenue streams and they still have all their other revenue streams on top of that. To be reckless with finances could just spell bankruptcy, losing the ground and relegation or extinction but hey, what does that matter if it means we might get to watch teams like Arsenal, Man City and so on... if we spend what we don't have, maybe they want us to be the next Pompey?

we are in a far better position thanks to Gus who was aware that the clubs financial position would not permit him to sign the players who would keep us in the top tier,so if he wanted to progress to the Premiership he would have to move on,which he did.
The Academy gives us the chance in the future to provide us with talented youngsters for our league side plus the opportunity to sell on some to keep the club in a healthy financial state whilst we continue in the Championship with 20,000 plus gates.

 

[cjd]

You mean clubs with Premier League players whose parachute payments give them a £20 million head start over the Albion? All of them.

Thankyou for taking the time to reply.

So, as I understand it now, the 7 clubs with a higher budget than the Albion were clubs that had been relegated from the Premier League and were receiving parachute payments.

Although it cannot be factually stated, I think it is fair to assume that those clubs with a higher budget were also 'carrying' players of a far lesser ability, albeit with excessive wage contracts.

I don't think Poyet was rubbish/inept/poor etc etc , but.....given his budget I certainly don't believe he over-achieved. At best, he managed par for the course. He did however excel in 'talking' a good story.

It would be unfair of me to comment as to whether his football was totally entertaining. As soon as our goalkeeper passed the ball out to Greer, I used to pop home and do the washing, mow the lawn, the weekly Tesco shopping and clean the house while waiting for us to reach the halfway line.

 

[El Presidente]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply.

So, as I understand it now, the 7 clubs with a higher budget than the Albion were clubs that had been relegated from the Premier League and were receiving parachute payments.

Although it cannot be factually stated, I think it is fair to assume that those clubs with a higher budget were also 'carrying' players of a far lesser ability, albeit with excessive wage contracts.

I don't think Poyet was rubbish/inept/poor etc etc , but.....given his budget I certainly don't believe he over-achieved. At best, he managed par for the course. He did however excel in 'talking' a good story.

If you take a look at the research done to date, the greatest link between success in terms of results and other factors is the link to wages, the second most important factor is NET transfer spending, managers come third. If you look at QPR and Leicester last season, they had the two highest wage bills, the same was true in the Premier League, Champions League, Scottish Premiership etc.. In La Liga Athletico's achievement was amazing, and shows that in the short term you can get a distortion to this relationship, but it reasserts itself over a longer period of time.

The OP's assertion was that Poyet was responsible for our poor start to the current season. My view is that his analysis doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

 

[El Presidente]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply.

So, as I understand it now, the 7 clubs with a higher budget than the Albion were clubs that had been relegated from the Premier League and were receiving parachute payments.

Although it cannot be factually stated, I think it is fair to assume that those clubs with a higher budget were also 'carrying' players of a far lesser ability, albeit with excessive wage contracts.

I don't think Poyet was rubbish/inept/poor etc etc , but.....given his budget I certainly don't believe he over-achieved. At best, he managed par for the course. He did however excel in 'talking' a good story.

It would be unfair of me to comment as to whether his football was totally entertaining. As soon as our goalkeeper passed the ball out to Greer, I used to pop home and do the washing, mow the lawn, the weekly Tesco shopping and clean the house while waiting for us to reach the halfway line.

There's a number of approaches to relegation.

1: Use the parachute payments to cope with the high wage bill brought down from the Premier League. (Bolton)

2: Use the payments to buy players to try to bounce straight back (QPR with Austin and Morrisson, Blackburn with Jordan Rhodes, Fulham with Ross McCormack, Norwich with Grabban).

3: Use the payments to line the pockets of directors (Blackpool)

 

[Baaaald]

Utter garbage. The only thing we can ever blame Poyet for is that he never got us over the line against palace in the play offs. If we had won that second leg we would have gone up and things would have been very different.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

If

Big word, if.

 

[jimbob5]

Utter garbage. The only thing we can ever blame Poyet for is that he never got us over the line against palace in the play offs. If we had won that second leg we would have gone up and things would have been very different.

We'd have struggled and probably been relegated after a lot of players' agents would have demanded vast wage rises.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

we are in a far better position thanks to Gus who was aware that the clubs financial position would not permit him to sign the players who would keep us in the top tier,so if he wanted to progress to the Premiership he would have to move on,which he did.
The Academy gives us the chance in the future to provide us with talented youngsters for our league side plus the opportunity to sell on some to keep the club in a healthy financial state whilst we continue in the Championship with 20,000 plus gates.

We weren't there so who knows what sort of budget he would have got to try to keep us up if we had gained promotion but i don't believe that he left because his potential PL budget was too small.

He wanted to spend more in the Championship to try to make the difference (not guarenteed to work anyway) but the evidence in the accounts was that Bloom had backed him and increased his budget when there was a chance for promotion and Poyet failed. At some point the Chairman / financier will have to say that enough is enough in terms of how much we over spend and tell the manager that they have to work within that budget (even more important with FFP appearing on the horizon when Gus was arguing for more) and it appeared that Gus was unwilling to work within the new budget as he may have felt that he was unable to deliver due to the financial advantage that clubs with parachute payments get, theoretically allowing them a better squad that we could ever manage on our budget (whether it ever works out like that is a different matter)

Gus wanted more, the club were unable or unwilling to budge by much and not enough to keep Gus happy so he offered to quit, sparking the events that led to his dismissal in the summer after defeat in the play-offs. (bridges had been burnt and ill feeling stoked up between the 2 sides)

As you say, hopefully the academy will help us plug this gap (no transfer fees needed to get them to play for us and sell on potential has got to help us financially but the parachute payments are a massive handicap to sides who are not in reciept of them and the club were unwilling or unable to try to match them by losing even more (after decades of losing money at Withdean)

There are fans however, who think that because Bloom has money, and we have a stadium with 20k+ ST holders, then we should just continue to spend recklessly to get promotion and that Bloom & co should continue to fund the shortfall, but not knowing Blooms financial status (and not really wanting / needing to know anyway) maybe he doesn't want to or can't afford to keep running the club at such a loss (he is a businessman after all) it's his club, and he should be able to run it as he sees fit, and if that means meeting FFP it also means not caving into the managers higher than exceptable budgetary demands. Harry Redknapp seems to be a manager who can pursuded Chairmen and directors of football clubs to overspend and go beyond their normal budget but we have seen the mess thats left behind and would it be in our favour to go through that to further the career of Gus Poyet who will have moved on and been unaffes=cted by the outcome?

Gus did improve our standing, but most managers (with differing degrees of success) would probably done that too as we had moved from a small athletics stadium to a purpose build ground capabale of holding 4 times as many fans. Is Gus to blame for what came next (if viewed as negative in failing to get promoted)? - no, in the same way that Mark McGhee isn't, or Mickey Adams isn't, or any other ex-manager of ours is. Once they leave their influence goes too, and it's then down to the next manager to put their mark on the clubs history and Garcia followed and managed to get us to the play-offs with an injury hit squad so how is Poyet to blame for our current league position, etc...? whether it had been good or bad, in a higher or lower division than when he left - he isn't, it's up to following managers to build on the legacy of previous managers (including Gus and all the others, because without any of them, our future may have been very different)