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[Football] Potter [NOT] at Chelsea

Potter at Chelsea

  • I want him to fail

    Votes: 365 48.2%
  • I want him to succeed

    Votes: 73 9.6%
  • He's gone. I'm indifferent. Graham who?

    Votes: 320 42.2%

  • Total voters
    758






Seagull27

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
3,369
Bristol
Yeah this.

Clearly he needs time to get his idea across.
But I thought he was tactically astute enough to keep them competitive.

2 wins in 15 games.
With the players at his disposal?

I would be amazed if Boehly doesn't pull the trigger when they go out of the UCL.
Agree - some of the narrative on here (and elsewhere) that he's a rubbish coach, and did nothing significant at Brighton, is ridiculous. He revolutionised our playing style over 2 seasons without taking is backwards, which is difficult in the PL and he received a lot of credit for it at the time. These things don't happen overnight, it's far more than just running a few new drills and choosing a different formation - the entire club has to change how they operate.

Suggestions that our improvements at the end of last season are down to one player are just silly. It was largely the result of Graham and his team, and the style of play they've introduced is so key to RDZ having instant success - he's built on what was already there, he hasn't had to start from scratch.

Which makes it even more surprising how badly he's doing at Chelsea. I thought he'd be able to sustain them at Europa League places this season at a minimum, before building in future seasons. He's not a bad coach overnight so perhaps there are even deeper problems within the club that are taking time to sort out. Which might explain why Boehly is happy to give him time.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,504
Hove
It is astonishing how poorly Chelsea are doing.

It's also really quite interesting. Despite what his detractors say Potter isn't a bad manager so why is he performing so much worse than many worse caliber managers would? He's making Lampard look like a great in comparison.

Is it a necessary result of his process. The team has to go through this period before coming out the other side a trophy winning juggernaut? If so, why? What is he doing that means a collection of top quality players end up performing like a bunch of league one players for a season?

Is it just that his methods are anathema to a group of 'superstars' and they have as a group completely failed to buy into his methods? If so, why?

Is it because there's a bit of the Nathan Jones about him in that he feels out of place and is compromising his ideals and thus making a merry mess of everything?

Is it something structural/deeper within the club?

I was confident that once he gets his ideas across that Chelsea would become a very good team but I never imagined they'd be this bad in the mean time. Like I said it's astonishing just how much of a mess they are.

If he does stay until next season the summer could be absolute carnage.
From the outside it looks like ManUtd post Ferguson when his departure left a power vacuum that has lasted a decade where internally battles of who is in charge of what raged behind the scenes. ToddB has come in and stripped out the old wood and just thrown a load of new timber he got from the merchants and asked everyone to turn it into a furniture set. They're still arguing over the design of it let alone making it.

The next nearest comparison I can think of is Arsenal and their post Wenger period. While Ferguson and Wenger were long serving managers, there was no longevity under RA, so he was the king pin that suddenly has gone. Arteta was appointed in Dec 2019, but they sat 15th after the first 14 games of his full season in charge 20/21 with 8 defeats and facing talk of the sack after not winning in 7.

Perhaps Boehly is looking at how Arteta needed a bit of time to turn it around at Arsenal, this title challenge has been 3 years in the making. Ironically the biggest problem player Arteta had is now on Chelsea's books...
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
12,416
Agree - some of the narrative on here (and elsewhere) that he's a rubbish coach, and did nothing significant at Brighton, is ridiculous. He revolutionised our playing style over 2 seasons without taking is backwards, which is difficult in the PL and he received a lot of credit for it at the time. These things don't happen overnight, it's far more than just running a few new drills and choosing a different formation - the entire club has to change how they operate.

Suggestions that our improvements at the end of last season are down to one player are just silly. It was largely the result of Graham and his team, and the style of play they've introduced is so key to RDZ having instant success - he's built on what was already there, he hasn't had to start from scratch.

Which makes it even more surprising how badly he's doing at Chelsea. I thought he'd be able to sustain them at Europa League places this season at a minimum, before building in future seasons. He's not a bad coach overnight so perhaps there are even deeper problems within the club that are taking time to sort out. Which might explain why Boehly is happy to give him time.
The question has always been, can he do it at the top level.
It's a very different job than getting a carefully selected group of young prospects and solid pros to adapt to a new system.

There may well be a bigger gulf between talented coach and elite manager, than we thought.
 


Seagull27

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
3,369
Bristol
The question has always been, can he do it at the top level.
It's a very different job than getting a carefully selected group of young prospects and solid pros to adapt to a new system.

There may well be a bigger gulf between talented coach and elite manager, than we thought.
Yes - and I'd add the challenge when dealing with a club that is restructuring entirely. At Brighton he already had a good setup, but at Chelsea they still need to build that (after recruiting all the staff).

I think we're seeing something similar
to Moyes at United - he clearly wasn't a bad coach overnight, but the challenge of replacing SAF (who had been papering over the cracks for some time) was too great.
 




The Wizard

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2009
18,401
Agree - some of the narrative on here (and elsewhere) that he's a rubbish coach, and did nothing significant at Brighton, is ridiculous. He revolutionised our playing style over 2 seasons without taking is backwards, which is difficult in the PL and he received a lot of credit for it at the time. These things don't happen overnight, it's far more than just running a few new drills and choosing a different formation - the entire club has to change how they operate.

Suggestions that our improvements at the end of last season are down to one player are just silly. It was largely the result of Graham and his team, and the style of play they've introduced is so key to RDZ having instant success - he's built on what was already there, he hasn't had to start from scratch.

Which makes it even more surprising how badly he's doing at Chelsea. I thought he'd be able to sustain them at Europa League places this season at a minimum, before building in future seasons. He's not a bad coach overnight so perhaps there are even deeper problems within the club that are taking time to sort out. Which might explain why Boehly is happy to give him time.
How can our turn around in goalscoring form have been a result of Graham and his team? He’d been manager for ages then all of a sudden we started scoring lots of goals, I just think it was a purple patch, although it does seem coincidental it coincides with Mac/Caicedo pairing in midfield.

Potter revolutionised our playing style after Hughton, I will agree with that although I think I could have done that with the style we used to employ.

I think it’s somewhere in the middle, he did a very good job here but the same issues we saw here (except his last few months) goalscoring, chance conversion and problems breaking teams down, seem to have followed Graham to Chelsea, for all his apparent emotional intelligence at the moment he’s coming across as a thoroughly dislikable.


Sorry but there is no excuse for him not getting results with the players he has available at Chelsea, restructuring, new players etc I don’t care he has nearly a billion pounds worth of players in that squad, he knew going to Chelsea that would be part of the challenge, managing a bigger squad or top players and so far he is failing miserably.
 


Seagull27

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
3,369
Bristol
How can our turn around in goalscoring form have been a result of Graham and his team? He’d been manager for ages then all of a sudden we started scoring lots of goals, I just think it was a purple patch, although it does seem coincidental it coincides with Mac/Caicedo pairing in midfield.

Potter revolutionised our playing style after Hughton, I will agree with that although I think I could have done that with the style we used to employ.

I think it’s somewhere in the middle, he did a very good job here but the same issues we saw here (except his last few months) goalscoring, chance conversion and problems breaking teams down, seem to have followed Graham to Chelsea, for all his apparent emotional intelligence at the moment he’s coming across as a thoroughly dislikable.


Sorry but there is no excuse for him not getting results with the players he has available at Chelsea, restructuring, new players etc I don’t care he has nearly a billion pounds worth of players in that squad, he knew going to Chelsea that would be part of the challenge, managing a bigger squad or top players and so far he is failing miserably.
Because everything else had been building, with the goalscoring being the last piece of the puzzle. He'd got Trossard performing at the levels we all hoped he could, and found a way to get the most out of Gross - those two alone made a huge difference.

You mention Mac - Potter was a huge factor in him becoming the player he is, when he joined he had potential but was nowhere near a starting player. He did this with countless other players and was key to our setup of bringing young players through. This is one of his strengths, which makes it more bizarre as to why Chelsea are just trying to spend their way up the league rather than looking to their youth.

If changing the playing style was so easy, why didn't Hughton do it? You only need to to look at what Bloom, Barber and many of the players under Potter have said about him, even since leaving, to know the impact he had.

Let's not try and rewrite history. Potter was a fantastic coach for us, and could have become legendary if he'd stayed perhaps 1 or 2 more seasons. We're just extremely lucky to have recruited a coach who is perhaps going to be even better (too early to say yet).

I have no doubt that RDZ would not be doing as well as he is now if he had picked up from where Hughton left off. In fact, he probably wouldn't have joined us.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,845
Brighton
I’m not sure how many managers would do well when a clueless American is in charge of recruitment at Chelsea. Apparently Boehly fell out with Tuchel because he wanted to sign Ronaldo and Tommy thought the player was past it.

However, Potter was blinded by ambition or money when he took the job. A simple glance at the owner’s mullet is all he should have needed to realise that this club was not a fit for him.

737D4662-19EC-4E92-8879-5946E3A0E7A1.jpeg
 




The Wizard

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2009
18,401
Because everything else had been building, with the goalscoring being the last piece of the puzzle. He'd got Trossard performing at the levels we all hoped he could, and found a way to get the most out of Gross - those two alone made a huge difference.

You mention Mac - Potter was a huge factor in him becoming the player he is, when he joined he had potential but was nowhere near a starting player. He did this with countless other players and was key to our setup of bringing young players through. This is one of his strengths, which makes it more bizarre as to why Chelsea are just trying to spend their way up the league rather than looking to their youth.

If changing the playing style was so easy, why didn't Hughton do it? You only need to to look at what Bloom, Barber and many of the players under Potter have said about him, even since leaving, to know the impact he had.

Let's not try and rewrite history. Potter was a fantastic coach for us, and could have become legendary if he'd stayed perhaps 1 or 2 more seasons. We're just extremely lucky to have recruited a coach who is perhaps going to be even better (too early to say yet).

I have no doubt that RDZ would not be doing as well as he is now if he had picked up from where Hughton left off. In fact, he probably wouldn't have joined us.
I just think you’re giving Potter too much credit, I’m with you he did a fantastic job here aided by an exceptional recruitment team but it’s easy to be clouded into an extreme view on either side.

The run towards the end was unbelievable, but I’m not forgetting the fact we didn’t win for what 10 games in a row last season, barely even looking like scoring and for what I would say 80% of Potters reign we played good football that a lot of time didn’t go that far.

It points to a flaw in his coaching ability, the job he did here is almost irrelevant to the job at Chelsea because it’s almost the total opposite end of the spectrum job wise, that’s why I’m so surprised they employed him: here he knew he had time and patience, at Chelsea he has a squad of about 50 players who are already elite level players, there’s almost nothing that he did well here that will help him succeed at Chelsea.
 


Seagull27

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
3,369
Bristol
I just think you’re giving Potter too much credit, I’m with you he did a fantastic job here aided by an exceptional recruitment team but it’s easy to be clouded into an extreme view on either side.

The run towards the end was unbelievable, but I’m not forgetting the fact we didn’t win for what 10 games in a row last season, barely even looking like scoring and for what I would say 80% of Potters reign we played good football that a lot of time didn’t go that far.

It points to a flaw in his coaching ability, the job he did here is almost irrelevant to the job at Chelsea because it’s almost the total opposite end of the spectrum job wise, that’s why I’m so surprised they employed him: here he knew he had time and patience, at Chelsea he has a squad of about 50 players who are already elite level players, there’s almost nothing that he did well here that will help him succeed at Chelsea.
I agree on your last paragraph, I don't think he's a good fit for Chelsea and despite employing a good portion of our backroom staff, they don't seem to be implementing the same strategy (unless they are for the long-term, which we aren't seeing yet).

But the fact that so many on here continue to be obsessed with his failures at Chelsea suggests that we all very much cared when he left; if he was average then we would have shrugged our shoulders and moved on. There was a real feeling of dread when he left (before RDZ was appointed) - because so many recognised what a good thing we had with him. Even if some are pretending that wasn't the case now.
 


Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,576
tokyo
From the outside it looks like ManUtd post Ferguson when his departure left a power vacuum that has lasted a decade where internally battles of who is in charge of what raged behind the scenes. ToddB has come in and stripped out the old wood and just thrown a load of new timber he got from the merchants and asked everyone to turn it into a furniture set. They're still arguing over the design of it let alone making it.

The next nearest comparison I can think of is Arsenal and their post Wenger period. While Ferguson and Wenger were long serving managers, there was no longevity under RA, so he was the king pin that suddenly has gone. Arteta was appointed in Dec 2019, but they sat 15th after the first 14 games of his full season in charge 20/21 with 8 defeats and facing talk of the sack after not winning in 7.

Perhaps Boehly is looking at how Arteta needed a bit of time to turn it around at Arsenal, this title challenge has been 3 years in the making. Ironically the biggest problem player Arteta had is now on Chelsea's books...
I hadn't thought of it in those terms, of Abrahamovic being the glue like sir Alex and Wenger. It probably hasn't helped that all of the key players off the field have been replaced.
 




slimes

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2011
642
cheltenham
When potter does get sacked he won't be going to any club soon! Is it true that if potter becomes a manager again he will lose the 4 years of 12 million pound a year given by Chelsea?
If that's the case.. he'll be manager at Swansea in 2027
 


The Wizard

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2009
18,401
When potter does get sacked he won't be going to any club soon! Is it true that if potter becomes a manager again he will lose the 4 years of 12 million pound a year given by Chelsea?
If that's the case.. he'll be manager at Swansea in 2027
Sounds like a highly improbable clause, never heard of such a thing sounds like it would be illegal.
 


Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
21,147
Born In Shoreham
I agree on your last paragraph, I don't think he's a good fit for Chelsea and despite employing a good portion of our backroom staff, they don't seem to be implementing the same strategy (unless they are for the long-term, which we aren't seeing yet).

But the fact that so many on here continue to be obsessed with his failures at Chelsea suggests that we all very much cared when he left; if he was average then we would have shrugged our shoulders and moved on. There was a real feeling of dread when he left (before RDZ was appointed) - because so many recognised what a good thing we had with him. Even if some are pretending that wasn't the case now.
I was delighted he left if people want to rave over a handful of games under Potter that’s up to them. You could predict the outcome before kick off the majority of the time.
 




deletebeepbeepbeep

Well-known member
May 12, 2009
21,905
The inconsistency that was a feature of Potter's career at Brighton is happening again.
First 9 games at Chelsea............W 6 D 3 L 0
Next 17 games at Chelsea........W 3 D 4 L 10

It will continue all through his managerial career.

These long runs are odd but you can not deny they are consistent across each of his three Premier League seasons, periods of 10-15 games were results are good followed by 10-15 games were results are poor.

I think it is normal for a 'team like Brighton' to have these inconsistent periods but for a team that cost several hundred million to assemble...
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,436
These long runs are odd but you can not deny they are consistent across each of his three Premier League seasons, periods of 10-15 games were results are good followed by 10-15 games were results are poor.

I think it is normal for a 'team like Brighton' to have these inconsistent periods but for a team that cost several hundred million to assemble...
I was convinced that once he had an expensively assembled squad he would do the business. I thought it was the lower quality of player that caused the poor runs.

I was wrong though, poor runs and a lack of goals appear to be a feature of Potter ball.
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
When potter does get sacked he won't be going to any club soon! Is it true that if potter becomes a manager again he will lose the 4 years of 12 million pound a year given by Chelsea?
If that's the case.. he'll be manager at Swansea in 2027
I think it is fairly likely he'll have a break regardless what his contract says. He's been in a job for 12 years now without any breaks (or sackings as it is also called), which is basically unheard of these days. Its a 16 hour per day job really, I imagine he must be quite exhausted.

Could see him taking a break for 6-18 months and then taking over some mid-sized PL club. He isn't going to move to Wales and work for the asset strippers again, that much is clear.
 






BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,436


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