Poll – Which way did you vote and do you want free movement of people

[Machiavelli]

That's her starting position.

In what way are we not in control? It's exactly as I thought it would be.

I'm not so sure that Merkel, and the EU, will budge from that position. It will be interesting to see how both sides present the outcome, and how that process of arriving at an outcome pans out.

What you think is by no means representative of what most in the Leave camp think, which is well reflected by the question you ask on this thread, which itself is two distinct positions. Many now recognise that the UK needs to enter into negotiations with the EU (amongst several other nations), and that they're not in control of those negotiations, as there are two parties to it and, as I think you've indicated elsewhere, one of those parties is bigger than the other.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not so sure that Merkel, and the EU, will budge from that position.

If we offer them free trade and free movement of people, or no more German cars, French food and drink etc, they'll take the free trade offer.

What you think is by no means representative of what most in the Leave camp think

Indeed, but it is representative of what the majority of voters think, which is more to the point.

[/QUOTE]Many now recognise that the UK needs to enter into negotiations with the EU (amongst several other nations), and that they're not in control of those negotiations[/QUOTE]As I said above, why are we not in control of it? Just because they are bigger than us? The control is equal, if we don't trade with the EU, the EU will collapse, so they're no more in control than us.

 

[Machiavelli]

If we offer them free trade and free movement of people, or no more German cars, French food and drink etc, they'll take the free trade offer.

Indeed, but it is representative of what the majority of voters think, which is more to the point.

Many now recognise that the UK needs to enter into negotiations with the EU (amongst several other nations), and that they're not in control of those negotiations[/QUOTE]As I said above, why are we not in control of it? Just because they are bigger than us? The control is equal, if we don't trade with the EU, the EU will collapse, so they're no more in control than us.[/QUOTE]

I agree with much of what you say in post 3213 from the EU referendum thread, except there is no 'global market' to negotiate with. There are nation states, regional/continental trading blocs and 'the markets'. It's those that you have to negotiate with. (I also suspect that there will be greater drawbacks.)
You and I will have to differ on your last point. Yes, the UK imports more from the EU than it exports, but if we lost that link our economy will tank quite seriously probably losing double digit GDP. This wouldn't happen to the EU, which would be less adversely affected.
Merkel and Germany also want the EU to remain together, so why really would they enable the UK a more beneficial deal than the Norway model? And such a deal will leave an awful lot of the Leave camp severely disappointed.

 

[Jim D]

Why is free trade and free movement joined together? Why can't you have one but not the other?

 

[Triggaaar]

You and I will have to differ on your last point. Yes, the UK imports more from the EU than it exports, but if we lost that link our economy will tank quite seriously probably losing double digit GDP. This wouldn't happen to the EU, which would be less adversely affected.

I agree that our economy would tank, and while I agree it would initially fall by more than the EU economy, the EU economy can't afford to handle that much of a drop, because some countries are already on the brink.

Merkel and Germany also want the EU to remain together, so why really would they enable the UK a more beneficial deal than the Norway model?

Because Britain are miles bigger than Norway, and can demand a better deal.

And such a deal will leave an awful lot of the Leave camp severely disappointed.

So?

Why is free trade and free movement joined together? Why can't you have one but not the other?

You could if the EU would offer it, but they won't.

 

[nicko31]

Think the second option is as "confused" as the last as we all know it ain't going to happen

Seems few in poll want the first option as basically we have...

Same cost to be in club as before or more
Not allowed in the club house
Damage to the economy in the near term
A right wing Tory Government

 

[Triggaaar]

Think the first option is as "confused" as the last as we all know it ain't going to happen

Of course it can happen, what are you talking about?

 

[nicko31]

Of course it can happen, what are you talking about?

Sorry meant option 2 ain't gonna happen

 

[Machiavelli]

I agree that our economy would tank, and while I agree it would initially fall by more than the EU economy, the EU economy can't afford to handle that much of a drop, because some countries are already on the brink.

Because Britain are miles bigger than Norway, and can demand a better deal.
So?

You could if the EU would offer it, but they won't.

I think you and I will have to leave it that I think you're imputing too much agency to a declining power, whereas you think that I'm too pessimistic on that front. We'll see.

 

[Triggaaar]

Sorry meant option 2 ain't gonna happen

Oh. Well in that case, I hope you're right, but I wouldn't say it can't happen, and even if it can't, I can understand that some would have voted with that in mind, so I wouldn't say they were confused.