Police 'find blood on walls of Madeleine abduction flat'

[Simster]

not sure why my wife stating that when she became a mum it is her place to ensure the children are cared for gets up your nose?

*sigh* It's simple, it doesn't. Continuous unjustified self-rightous and pious rants do though, as I have made perfectly clear in my last couple of posts on the subject.

anyone who does leave their kids alone is not fulfilling their obligations as a parent. there is no grey area there, black and white as far as i am concerned.

But as far as I'm concerned, yes there is.
Childrens age
Distance travelled from the children
Likelihood of a fire risk
Time you are likely to be away from the children
Number of times you are likely to check on the kids in that time

You can also factor in the fact that I live in relative comfort - a £20 babysitting bill isn't a big deal to me, so I'm not about to get judgemental over another couple's decision in case money was tight. For all I know, they saved hard for that holiday, money was tight and they thought it would be OK to spend 30 minutes enjoying a meal only 20 yards away while the kids slept - and fully intended on checking up to ensure there were no problems.

 

[Starry]

bollocks. It was a lapse when on holiday. People let their guard down. No-one, not even your wife is the perfect parent.


Everyone thinks the McCanns made a bad choice. So when you say



I wouldn't disagree. Don't think anyone would. She didn't just think that though, did she? Where it does get sickening is when your wife states that the McCanns have blood on their hands. The insinuation is that they as good as did it themselves. If only they'd been the perfect parent like your wife......

...so when I say shame on her for saying it, your wife acts the martyr. "Let them burn me at the stake"..."I'd rather be self-righteous and shameful/it's what I signed up to when I became a parent"


Buzzer ( a bad parent)

well i read my wife four posts on this thread and i dont see her mention anything about blood. everything she has said on this thread has been about the mccanns turning their backs on their kids and leaving them alone, uncared for. my wife is as good a parent as she can be,she doesnt switch off because she has a hungry belly. she makes sure our children are perfectly cared for. we go on holiday, we have never ever put our kids to bed and gone out for food. ever. and i will carry on calling anyone who does such a negligent thing out on it.

as she posted a long way above, you misunderstood her point she was not implying the mccanns did this themselves, she clarified that above. but dont let facts get in the way of anything.

you called my wife self righteous and whatever else, but i agree with her. if caring for our kids makes her that then i would much rather keep her that way than have the other.

 

[readingstockport]

*sigh* It's simple, it doesn't. Continuous unjustified self-rightous and pious rants do though, as I have made perfectly clear in my last couple of posts on the subject.

But as far as I'm concerned, yes there is.
Childrens age
Distance travelled from the children
Likelihood of a fire risk
Time you are likely to be away from the children
Number of times you are likely to check on the kids in that time

You can also factor in the fact that I live in relative comfort - a £20 babysitting bill isn't a big deal to me, so I'm not about to get judgemental over another couple's decision in case money was tight. For all I know, they saved hard for that holiday, money was tight and they thought it would be OK to spend 30 minutes enjoying a meal only 20 yards away while the kids slept - and fully intended on checking up to ensure there were no problems.

The mother is a gp and the father a consultant cardiologist. They are not short of a couple of quid to pay for a babysitter. And if they were then how did they have the money to pop off and spend more money than it would have cost for a babysitter in a restaraunt.

And it was a damn sight more than 20 yards away from the appartment.

Sorry, but as I said, something about the parents story simply does not add up.

 

[Starry]

*sigh* It's simple, it doesn't. Continuous unjustified self-rightous and pious rants do though, as I have made perfectly clear in my last couple of posts on the subject.

But as far as I'm concerned, yes there is.
Childrens age
Distance travelled from the children
Likelihood of a fire risk
Time you are likely to be away from the children
Number of times you are likely to check on the kids in that time

You can also factor in the fact that I live in relative comfort - a £20 babysitting bill isn't a big deal to me, so I'm not about to get judgemental over another couple's decision in case money was tight. For all I know, they saved hard for that holiday, money was tight and they thought it would be OK to spend 30 minutes enjoying a meal only 20 yards away while the kids slept - and fully intended on checking up to ensure there were no problems.

shame those arent the facts though. as they stated there was no babysitter in the flat because they didnt want to leave the children with strangers. but were/are happy using the kids club all day.

leaving three babies aged 3 and under is negligent. i dont care how far away you go, how often you check back, chances of a fire. if you close your front door and leave three babies alone, then well. its the kids i feel sorry for.,

 

[aftershavedave]

well i read my wife four posts on this thread and i dont see her mention anything about blood. everything she has said on this thread has been about the mccanns turning their backs on their kids and leaving them alone, uncared for. my wife is as good a parent as she can be,she doesnt switch off because she has a hungry belly. she makes sure our children are perfectly cared for. we go on holiday, we have never ever put our kids to bed and gone out for food. ever. and i will carry on calling anyone who does such a negligent thing out on it.

as she posted a long way above, you misunderstood her point she was not implying the mccanns did this themselves, she clarified that above. but dont let facts get in the way of anything.

you called my wife self righteous and whatever else, but i agree with her. if caring for our kids makes her that then i would much rather keep her that way than have the other.

you sound as precious as she is!

as an observer of this sorry thread so far i'd guess that what is pissing people off isn't your view of whether the parents should or should not have left them alone, but your rather patronising way of putting the point across....

 

[Timbo]

Too young
Too far
High
Too long
Not enough

 

[Starry]

you sound as precious as she is!

as an observer of this sorry thread so far i'd guess that what is pissing people off isn't your view of whether the parents should or should not have left them alone, but your rather patronising way of putting the point across....

i'm a big girl me when it comes to the kids and their safety. the heartbreak that losing a child causes is something no one should ever suffer, however it occurs, which is why i find it hard to understand why people are prepared to take that risk.

 

[tip top]

*sigh* It's simple, it doesn't. Continuous unjustified self-rightous and pious rants do though, as I have made perfectly clear in my last couple of posts on the subject.

But as far as I'm concerned, yes there is.
Childrens age
Distance travelled from the children
Likelihood of a fire risk
Time you are likely to be away from the children
Number of times you are likely to check on the kids in that time

You can also factor in the fact that I live in relative comfort - a £20 babysitting bill isn't a big deal to me, so I'm not about to get judgemental over another couple's decision in case money was tight. For all I know, they saved hard for that holiday, money was tight and they thought it would be OK to spend 30 minutes enjoying a meal only 20 yards away while the kids slept - and fully intended on checking up to ensure there were no problems.

That should be in the food hell thread because that is absolute TRIPE.

 

[Buzzer]

as she posted a long way above, you misunderstood her point she was not implying the mccanns did this themselves, she clarified that above. but dont let facts get in the way of anything.

I never said she did say that in my recent post.. My exact words were "as good as"

and as for not mentioning anything about blood on their hands (we're talking metaphorically.).....Your wife's exact words were :

That poor little girl has more than likely paid the ultimate price at her parents hands

Absolutely disgraceful comment.

 

[cjd]

well i read my wife four posts on this thread and i dont see her mention anything about blood. everything she has said on this thread has been about the mccanns turning their backs on their kids and leaving them alone, uncared for. my wife is as good a parent as she can be,she doesnt switch off because she has a hungry belly. she makes sure our children are perfectly cared for. we go on holiday, we have never ever put our kids to bed and gone out for food. ever. and i will carry on calling anyone who does such a negligent thing out on it.

as she posted a long way above, you misunderstood her point she was not implying the mccanns did this themselves, she clarified that above. but dont let facts get in the way of anything.

you called my wife self righteous and whatever else, but i agree with her. if caring for our kids makes her that then i would much rather keep her that way than have the other.

Different opinions....... different views........I disagree with with many posts on here, but I think everybody knows where they stand on the issue now. I just hope it doesn,t get personal........I (and I,m sure most posters on here) are well aware that your views will have a particularly personal stance.
Don,t use up too much energy on this though........tomorrow is decision day for Leeds, and much as i enjoy your posts, I,m going to be ready to argue with you if it,s not the "right decision".........

 

[Starry]

I never said she did say that. My exact words were "as good as"

and as for not mentioning anything about blood on their hands (we're talking metaphorically.).....Your wife's exact words were :

That poor little girl has more than likely paid the ultimate price at her parents hands

Absolutely disgraceful comment.

we'll just have to agree to disagree, then because i see it that who ever or what ever happened to madeleine happened because a sick awful person was around/an accident/or we just don't know, and because her parents were not protecting her.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

And me when I became a Dad,

to me the point has always been, you don't not leave them alone because a mad axe wielding fiend from outer space will come in, boil them alive before undertaking satanic rituals on them, whilst you're having a party etc

but because if the little ones wake up, become sick, they need you to be there.

This is even more important, when you are staying elsewhere and they are disorientated.

Only the other night we heard a noise and found our 3 year old at the top of the stairs.

We needed to be there comforting her not bellying down loads of pints.

LC

I agree with that

 

[Starry]

Different opinions....... different views........I disagree with with many posts on here, but I think everybody knows where they stand on the issue now. I just hope it doesn,t get personal........I (and I,m sure most posters on here) are well aware that your views will have a particularly personal stance.
Don,t use up too much energy on this though........tomorrow is decision day for Leeds, and much as i enjoy your posts, I,m going to be ready to argue with you if it,s not the "right decision".........

i'm off out in a bit so will be bowing out of this thread, certainly dont want to upset anyone.

tomorrow is the day, i am sick of it all. it won't be over tomorrow anyway. one small part of it will be but we've got months of court rumblings and other aggrieved creditor things going on.

 

[Simster]

That should be in the food hell thread because that is absolute TRIPE.

Yes yes, I know you don't agree with me. But WHY?

Too young
Too far
High
Too long
Not enough

I agree with your assessment on some of these points - but not all. I still maintain that they are guilty of little more than making a judgement call that was different to the one I would probably have made under their circumstances. There are plenty of selfish people out there - it doesn't necessarily make them all bad parents because we all have character traits we'd rather not have.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Isn't being morbidly obsessed with never leaving children alone for two seconds a terribly stupid, irresponsible way to bring up a child?

 

[Timbo]

Isn't being morbidly obsessed with never leaving children alone for two seconds a terribly stupid, irresponsible way to bring up a child?

2 seconds yes, 30 minutes in a different building, no.

 

[aftershavedave]

excuse me for being uninformed, but how old were the other children who were with her when she disappeared? wouldn't the police have interviewed them? if so, what did they say?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Possiblt MoH, possibly, but we're not talking about 2 seconds are we, we're talking about 30 minutes or more, in a strange environment. Everybody on here whichever corner they are choosing in this discussion KNOWS that the parents, however well meaning, made a very bad parenting decision. this is not to say that castigating them at this point is either worthwhile or helpful.

One other point - more than one person has suggested that Paddy and Starry's 'personal position' is clouding their viewpoint. I find that patronising, frankly.

 

[readingstockport]

They were 2 year old twins I think. Not really reliable witnesses.

 

[Timbo]

Yes yes, I know you don't agree with me. But WHY?

I agree with your assessment on some of these points - but not all. I still maintain that they are guilty of little more than making a judgement call that was different to the one I would probably have made under their circumstances. There are plenty of selfish people out there - it doesn't necessarily make them all bad parents because we all have character traits we'd rather not have.

You only have to look at the parents state to realise they are loving (therefore not bad) parents. I think that in this instance, this is more than just a bad call and is downright irresponsible. Anything can happen at anytime but this was just tempting fate a little bit too much. A fact that I'm sure hasn't escaped the McCann's and one I'm sure they don't need preaching too about now.

Everyones an expert after the event.