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[Albion] Player Ratings v Sheff utd



Diablo

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2014
4,385
lewes
It would be great to know how many times we passed to them(loads) and they passed to us(not many) also how many times from inside their half it went back to Ryan.
Webster and Stephens(oh dear)

They looked like a well drilled TEAM .. we didn`t.
 




BN9 BHA

DOCKERS
NSC Patron
Jul 14, 2013
22,681
Newhaven
Players 3-5, fans get a 1 - booing after 20 minutes.. who the **** do you think you are

I didn't boo yesterday but I wasn't very happy.
I'm not actually sure who you think you are though TBH, far to up yourself for someone that doesn't support Brighton and only been on here for a short while.
 






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,106
Faversham
Very g0od. I would give the bearded man child 7, and Stephens, the worst player on the pitch yesterday, 3.[/QUOTE
Where has your judgement gone? How could Stephens be the worst player on the pitch when we have the new Hawkins at centre back?

I will own up to confirmation bias.

I was hoping the manager would start with Bissouma rather than Stevens after the Palace game. I felt that the more forward oriented trajectory that Biss brought to the game contributed to the crisper and more urgent style of play up there.

I was disappointed to see Steven reinstated. I would have been happier to have seen him come on second half with us two up, to slow the game down.

Instead we started slow and hesitatant, and Stevens did almost nothing right, even, later on in the game, having someone run up to him from behind and nick the ball of his toes, like you'd see at the circus, or on 1960s children's programme, Crackerjack (with Leslie Crowther as the opponent and Peter Glaze as hapless Stevens). I'm sorry, but I was disgusted.

I'm afraid I have directed all of my disappointment towards Stevens to the point where I can barely recall what our 25 million man did yesterday. My bad.
 




One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,990
Worthing
Ok after my pretty annoyed post yesterday about the attending fans rather infantile concept of either lynching or making statues out of the whole team, here is my actual ratings.

Ryan 4 - Too many mistakes. His indecisiveness on corners is pretty worrying as it makes defenders nervous as well.

Burn 6 - did what he does.
Dunk 5 - repaired a lot of the teams mistakes but his passing in the first half really set the tone of the game.
Webster 3 - needs to step up his game or he is going to find himself benched shortly.
Montoya 3 - so much ends with this man having a shit first touch. How the **** can you train with Barca for 12 years and still not be able to receive the ball without it rolling a couple of meters from your feet. I thought he would shine in potterball but im pretty ****ing tired of him.

Propper 5 - did ok but has a tendency of making the easy complicated.
Stephens 4 - started off ok but I feel the impatience of the fans really got to him.
Moody 6 - good on the ball as usual but struggled finding spaces

Trossard 2 - 14 touches in 45 minutes. Yes he didn't get much delivery but if you can't get the ball you need to seek new spaces which he didn't. Needs to improve his football brain.
Maupay 5 - really too high of a rating but I can't really bash him considering the lack of decent delivery.
Gross 3 - his biggest asset by far is his brain and vision so when he gets out smarter he looks very poor.

Murray 3 - is it days, weeks or months before the kid we signed from city takes his place?
Connolly 5 - pace and determination... And the usual tunnel vision.
Bissouma 6 - did a good job but also had it easier than the starters as Sheffield dropped a bit of their pressure.

Potter 10 - just kidding. Anyone rating managers on a game by game basis expose their complete lack of football understanding. Did you attend the tactics meeting before the game? Were you in the dressing room? Did you talk to him about the game plan? No. So what do you really know about his performance? What are you rating, the haircut?
And this does not only apply to Potter but all managers.

You don’t even support Brighton yet criticise the fans and people on NSC for having an opinion?

I didn’t rate the manager, but if I had, it would have been low. You don’t need to attend team meetings to see what is wrong, and by changing things so radically at half-time was almost an admission to that.

I understand you will always defend Potter, but would prefer you didn’t have a ‘pop’ at the supporters....

There were so many things wrong with yesterday, but it started on the pitch.


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Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
You don’t even support Brighton yet criticise the fans and people on NSC for having an opinion?

I didn’t rate the manager, but if I had, it would have been low. You don’t need to attend team meetings to see what is wrong, and by changing things so radically at half-time was almost an admission to that.

I understand you will always defend Potter, but would prefer you didn’t have a ‘pop’ at the supporters....

There were so many things wrong with yesterday, but it started on the pitch.


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That part really has nothing to do with Brighton or Potter. You could support spice girls or the nsdap for all I care, it's still hopelessly stupid to give ratings to managers and coaches on a game by game basis because you simply don't know most of their actions.

Maybe we had an excellent game plan that the players failed to deliver upon. Maybe we had a shit plan that destroyed our chances of winning. It's simply impossible to know.
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,990
Worthing
That part really has nothing to do with Brighton or Potter. You could support spice girls or the nsdap for all I care, it's still hopelessly stupid to give ratings to managers and coaches on a game by game basis because you simply don't know most of their actions.

Maybe we had an excellent game plan that the players failed to deliver upon. Maybe we had a shit plan that destroyed our chances of winning. It's simply impossible to know.

Well on that basis Hyypia was a tactical genius, who no Brighton fan understood, and similarly last season they were constantly told to attack.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Yesterday, Potter got it wrong, it started with Webster’s selection against a more direct approach, and continued with the removal of natural width and making us more narrow with the substitutions.

The decisions were wrong IMO, and that’s okay, because he makes mistakes like everyone else. It doesn’t make him a bad manager, just as culpable as the 11 players on the pitch.


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Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Well on that basis Hyypia was a tactical genius, who no Brighton fan understood, and similarly last season they were constantly told to attack.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Yesterday, Potter got it wrong, it started with Webster’s selection against a more direct approach, and continued with the removal of natural width and making us more narrow with the substitutions.

The decisions were wrong IMO, and that’s okay, because he makes mistakes like everyone else. It doesn’t make him a bad manager, just as culpable as the 11 players on the pitch.


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I wouldn't give ratings to Hyypia or CH on a game by game basis either. Over ten games or so it's possible to achieve an understanding of the managers work and how successful it is - I wouldn't oppose mentioning the manager in ie post season ratings - but game by game, impossible and stupid since the only part of their work you can actually be sure of is the starting eleven and subs.

Those parts are surprisingly small and in themself very hard to measure unless you have all the background info about training performances, fitness etc.
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,990
Worthing
I wouldn't give ratings to Hyypia or CH on a game by game basis either. Over ten games or so it's possible to achieve an understanding of the managers work and how successful it is - I wouldn't oppose mentioning the manager in ie post season ratings - but game by game, impossible and stupid since the only part of their work you can actually be sure of is the starting eleven and subs.

Those parts are surprisingly small and in themself very hard to measure unless you have all the background info about training performances, fitness etc.

But you rate players so readily?

Managers make tactical mistakes game by game as well. Yesterday was an example. As per my previous post, the subs were wrong, the selection was wrong, and if Sheff Utd (are indeed ‘good at what they do’ see GP’s pre-game press conference), we did not effectively counteract it, which is preparation and tactics.

Of course there’s a bigger goal, but that is why ‘Potter our’ threads are so stupid.


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Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
But you rate players so readily?

Managers make tactical mistakes game by game as well. Yesterday was an example. As per my previous post, the subs were wrong, the selection was wrong, and if Sheff Utd (are indeed ‘good at what they do’ see GP’s pre-game press conference), we did not effectively counteract it, which is preparation and tactics.

Of course there’s a bigger goal, but that is why ‘Potter our’ threads are so stupid.


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Yes I do because I can see almost all of their actions. I can with certainty say that passing a ball over the sideline in a non pressured situation is simply bad or that making a great cross is a good action. What I can't know is if the manager told them to play desperate passes up front or if it is the players taking bad decisions.

I agree that managers make bad tactical decisions on a game by game basis, but it's impossible to know what those decisions are without knowing what they are. Yes even to me Wilder seemed to win the tactical battle yesterday but like everyone else I can't really know because I don't have the necessary information.

It's always easy to be clever after the games. In the likely event of Mousset or whatever he is called starting on top with Duffy starting for us people here would have gone apeshit about not starting Webster to deal with his pace and not lose possession to give them counters.
 








Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,341
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
That part really has nothing to do with Brighton or Potter. You could support spice girls or the nsdap for all I care, it's still hopelessly stupid to give ratings to managers and coaches on a game by game basis because you simply don't know most of their actions.

Maybe we had an excellent game plan that the players failed to deliver upon. Maybe we had a shit plan that destroyed our chances of winning. It's simply impossible to know.

Again, if you actually went to games you could see that it's not hopelessly stupid at all. I sit behind the home dug out but high up in the upper west stand and you get an excellent tactical view from there. Within the first five minutes it was clear our tactics were all wrong. Either Potter didn't communicate a change effectively or couldn't see that, because we just carried on with the same old shit. You need to get wide and stretch Sheffield Utd and Duffy would have been a much better choice at CB. For all those reasons Potter had a bad game just like Stephens, Webster, Montoya and Ryan had bad games. You rate those, you can rate the coach. Doesn't mean I want him out or distrust him, nor did I boo. It was just a bad day at the office.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,280
Withdean area
Again, if you actually went to games you could see that it's not hopelessly stupid at all. I sit behind the home dug out but high up in the upper west stand and you get an excellent tactical view from there. Within the first five minutes it was clear our tactics were all wrong. Either Potter didn't communicate a change effectively or couldn't see that, because we just carried on with the same old shit. You need to get wide and stretch Sheffield Utd and Duffy would have been a much better choice at CB. For all those reasons Potter had a bad game just like Stephens, Webster, Montoya and Ryan had bad games. You rate those, you can rate the coach. Doesn't mean I want him out or distrust him, nor did I boo. It was just a bad day at the office.

Agree totally. Sheff Utd pinned us back from the first minute, then absolutely nothing changed on our part. With Webster and Dunk an awful back 2 throughout, lacking the pace and power to deal with the Mc’s. The first VAR disallowed goal could’ve been an wake up call to Potter and the players, that we’re still in it, time to adapt, a B plan. But nowt changed. Very reminiscent of the lowly trio of Burnley, Bmuff and Cardiff all giving us a lesson in football from the first minute.

Whether it be GP and/or the players, the rigidity of mindsets and actions made painful viewing.
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Again, if you actually went to games you could see that it's not hopelessly stupid at all. I sit behind the home dug out but high up in the upper west stand and you get an excellent tactical view from there. Within the first five minutes it was clear our tactics were all wrong. Either Potter didn't communicate a change effectively or couldn't see that, because we just carried on with the same old shit. You need to get wide and stretch Sheffield Utd and Duffy would have been a much better choice at CB. For all those reasons Potter had a bad game just like Stephens, Webster, Montoya and Ryan had bad games. You rate those, you can rate the coach. Doesn't mean I want him out or distrust him, nor did I boo. It was just a bad day at the office.

Duffy is indeed a better choice if your plan is to give away the ball easily and allow them to do what they do best, counter over and over again. Maybe that was the pre game tactic and then yes Duffy is better suited. But if the tactical idea was to dominate play and don't give away possession since they are extremely dangerous on counter attacks then most would go with Webster who is unquestionably better with the ball. Depending on our game plan it was either the right or the wrong choice. We don't know the plan though, just that whatever we we're trying it didn't work.
 


maltaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
13,361
Zabbar- Malta
From a stream:

Ryan 5 Possibly his worst game for us. Was at fault for 2 goals that were disallowed and didn't look anywhere close to commanding his area.
Webster 4 Awful game and gave away a goal and nearly another when they got past him chased down his weak headed backpass. Should have been subbed at half time.
Dunk 5 Wongly given MOM.
Burn 5 Would like to see him at CB with Bernardo at LB
Montoya 6 One of our better players today.
Propper 5 Better 2nd half.
Stephens 4 Very poor. Back to his worst too slow and too many sideways passes and gave the ball away too much.
Mooy 6.5 Always trying to be positive and strong on the ball.
Gross 5 Poor.
Trossard 5 No contribution but hardly saw the ball.
Maupay 6 Worked hard buit got no support or service..
Subs
Bissouma 6.5 Very positive but needs to pass rather than shoot from outside the box. Should have started.
Murray 4 Sorry Glenn but I think this is a season too far. Always relied upon to try but gives too many fouls away.
Connolly 6.5 Very lively, needs a run in the side if we can afford to have him and Maupay starting.

GP Got it wrong but tried to change it around.
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,990
Worthing
Yes I do because I can see almost all of their actions. I can with certainty say that passing a ball over the sideline in a non pressured situation is simply bad or that making a great cross is a good action. What I can't know is if the manager told them to play desperate passes up front or if it is the players taking bad decisions.

I agree that managers make bad tactical decisions on a game by game basis, but it's impossible to know what those decisions are without knowing what they are. Yes even to me Wilder seemed to win the tactical battle yesterday but like everyone else I can't really know because I don't have the necessary information.

It's always easy to be clever after the games. In the likely event of Mousset or whatever he is called starting on top with Duffy starting for us people here would have gone apeshit about not starting Webster to deal with his pace and not lose possession to give them counters.

Sorry I don’t agree.

The tactics were obvious for all to see, and as you say Sheff Utd acted better than we did in counteracting them. The manager has to take some responsibility. Therefore as per my first point, although I don’t do it I certainly don’t begrudge anyone who has.

As for Duffy giving the ball away, I’m fairly certain there is little or no difference to the quality of his distribution and a number of others at times. Personally, I’d rather have a defensive presence, that’s not hindsight at all as I’ve said it from the word go.

It is easy to hide behind the Duffy is inferior with the ball at his feet, when the fact is that there isn’t a lot difference between him, Dunk and Webster.

Webster hopefully will improve, but he is not strong enough, is frail aerially and the promise he initially showed is a distant memory.


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Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,692
The Fatherland
4's across the board except 1 each for Stephens and Webster for turning up.


Just one poor game. I've got complete trust in Potter.

It’s a shame they both turned up.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,692
The Fatherland
Sorry I don’t agree.

The tactics were obvious for all to see, and as you say Sheff Utd acted better than we did in counteracting them. The manager has to take some responsibility. Therefore as per my first point, although I don’t do it I certainly don’t begrudge anyone who has.

As for Duffy giving the ball away, I’m fairly certain there is little or no difference to the quality of his distribution and a number of others at times. Personally, I’d rather have a defensive presence, that’s not hindsight at all as I’ve said it from the word go.

It is easy to hide behind the Duffy is inferior with the ball at his feet, when the fact is that there isn’t a lot difference between him, Dunk and Webster.

Webster hopefully will improve, but he is not strong enough, is frail aerially and the promise he initially showed is a distant memory.


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I’m not overly convinced we were tactically out-thought. Our downfall was primarily down to Sheffield United closing us down every time we had the ball. This happened all over the pitch and prevented us from getting going. Also, when we did have possession any move eventually resulted in a sloppy or overhit final ball. A number of individual players had shockers as well. None of this is down to tactics imho.
 


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