[Technology] Petrol and diesel cars banned from 2035...

[Half Time Pies]

yep, i was discarding the goldilocks scenario, because power systems should consider peak load so that lights dont go out. the article is saying, if we assume only a quater of cars go electric, and people follow our best case for use of smart charging, then we can cope easily. do you not see how they may be understating the issue? it needs 10 Rampion sized wind farms, or another Hinkley nuke plant to cover the 4GW, if they are in the pipeline (in addition to projects replacing end of life power stations), it'll be fine.

I really don't see what National Grid has to gain from understating the issue.

I don't think anyone is saying that it is going to be easy but with the right investment, incentives and collaboration its achievable. In fact I would argue we are reaching a point of momentum in investment by the energy companies and car manufacturers which coupled with government support will make mass electric vehicle uptake in the UK inevitable.

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

Nobody's thinking about the health and safety of this. On street charging will be ridiculous. All those cables from charging point to car. Streets full of parked cars..just waiting for the first court case if someone tripping over the cable and breaking a leg or arm

 

[Justice]

Cone up with a way to make the electric car self charging and you would be a billionaire.

 

[Steve in Japan]

There is a lot of lithium out there, but it tends to only be found in relatively small amounts. Luckily, it’s highly recyclable, so secondary supply will be great. Fuel cell vehicles are probably a better option long term, but they are a fair way behind lithium in terms of large-scale deployable tech. As others have said, we absolutely must have this sort of target, or the relevant industries won’t do anything about it.

Battery tech in 15 years will be massively better than it is today.

I am sure you are correct. Two points though

Firstly, large scale Lithium mining is bad for the environment in the locations where it takes place, even at the current scale, let alone at the volume that will be required. There are similar concerns over the mining of cobalt, nickel and graphite which are needed for the batteries. Possibly a price that has to be paid for the greater good, but we should acknowledge that there is a price to be paid. And not by us in the UK.

Secondly, battery and EV production (and recycling) is not carbon neutral. There is a tendency to present EV as all good, and the petrol engine all bad, and all I am suggesting is there is a more balanced conversation to be had.

Boris's announcement has one probably unintended result - he's put a hex on hybrid vehicles, I think there may be some bargains to be had. Hopefully.

 

[RandyWanger]

My little Datsun is 50 years old now and still going strong It'll last another 50 years too. Best thing I now no longer need to tax it or even get an MOT.
I'm not against electric vehicles, but the technology and infrastructure isn't quite there yet to make me trade in my daily driven petrol Benz.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Nobody's thinking about the health and safety of this. On street charging will be ridiculous. All those cables from charging point to car. Streets full of parked cars..just waiting for the first court case if someone tripping over the cable and breaking a leg or arm

Certainly not a problem I have encountered and currently have 2 electric cars and have been driving them for last 4 years. There are 22,000 chargers in the UK already so I am sure we would have already seen the first court case if this was an issue.

Anyway I suppose we are about to find out as Brighton Council have recently approved 200 lamp post chargers! Prepare for cable armageddon!
https://airqualitynews.com/2019/11/05/brighton-to-get-200-ev-chargepoints-on-lamp-posts/

 

[wealdgull]

There are new chargers coming on-line at 350Kw, which will charge up most runarounds (~150 mile range) in 5-6 minutes, so overnight charging it likely to give way to a more petrol station style experience of a quick plug in, grab a coffee, and off you go. And that's today: 15 years of advancement in technology and learning from rolling our infrastructure will only make it easier.

 

[blue-shifted]

There will need to be a massive upgrade of the UK's power network.
A quick "fag packet" calculation shows we will need to more than double our generation capacity to support large scale electric car charging.

We are, at the time of this post, using 43GW (http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/). There are 32.5 million cars in the UK, if 25% want to charge overnight using a 7kW charging point, they will need 56GW to be supplied. That's the equivalent of 50 nuclear power stations or 143 Rampion wind farms.

That's going to cost a few quid....

I vote for the wind farms

 

[CHAPPERS]

A reduction in car journeys is the ideal. Government needs to get serious about getting cars off the road entirely and so does the general population (yes I do have one).

 

[schmunk]

I vote for the wind farms

I don't. It's been windy enough this winter, just from natural wind.

 

[BLOCK F]

A reduction in car journeys is the ideal. Government needs to get serious about getting cars off the road entirely and so does the general population (yes I do have one).

Well, that's a real vote winner and highly practical, to boot!

 

[CHAPPERS]

Well, that's a real vote winner and highly practical, to boot!

The government currently doesn't need any votes for 5 years.

All this arguing about what kind of car to ban needs to also include an argument about the necessity for people to own the things in the first place.

 

[Uter]

I wonder what will happen to petrol stations in the coming years. My guess is they will mostly close, declining in number slowly at first and then rapidly until they become very few and far between.

This is something perhaps those determined to hang on to their old cars might not have fully considered.

It's hard to envisage many petrol stations successfully converting to charging stations when most people will be able to charge from home, at work or from a lamppost. The exception could be those petrol stations located close to routes used by lots of cars making long distance journeys.

 

[happypig]

I wonder what will happen to petrol stations in the coming years. My guess is they will mostly close, declining in number slowly at first and then rapidly until they become very few and far between.

This is something perhaps those determined to hang on to their old cars might not have fully considered.

It's hard to envisage many petrol stations successfully converting to charging stations when most people will be able to charge from home, at work or from a lamppost. The exception could be those petrol stations located close to routes used by lots of cars making long distance journeys.

I could be wrong but I don't think petrol stations make much money on selling fuel which is why they are all little supermarkets.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

A reduction in car journeys is the ideal. Government needs to get serious about getting cars off the road entirely and so does the general population (yes I do have one).

I agree ... We moved to one car (from two) over a year ago. And we only use the car if we have to ... Tesco shop for example. We use the 700 bus loads now ... and also the train. And loads of walking too. I did an 8.5 mile round trip walk to Sainsbury's in Hove from Shoreham Beach a few weeks back to take a bag of stretchy plastic back that we'd accumulated over a number of months. I visit an old school pal in Bournemouth a few times a year. Always used to drive but the last 2/3 years I've travelled by train.

At some point, hopefully we can find a way to ditch the car altogether ... we're just not there yet!

 

[worthingseagull123]

The government currently doesn't need any votes for 5 years.

All this arguing about what kind of car to ban needs to also include an argument about the necessity for people to own the things in the first place.

Have you thought about moving to North Korea?

The government there is great in deciding what you allowed to own or not.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Up to 15 years of exhaust pollution to come, marvellous. Appreciate there is no quick fix and these things need phasing in slowly for many logistical reasons. Hopefully within 10 years most petrol and diesel cars will be gone.

Will still be able to buy petrol motorcycles thankfully.

 

[clapham_gull]

I could be wrong but I don't think petrol stations make much money on selling fuel which is why they are all little supermarkets.

I can confirm.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

 

[BLOCK F]

The government currently doesn't need any votes for 5 years.

All this arguing about what kind of car to ban needs to also include an argument about the necessity for people to own the things in the first place.

As things stand Chappers, an awful lot of people need to own cars and that will be the case for many years to come.
I can quite understand folk in London not needing a car, but we don't all live in large conurbations with adequate public transport systems.
Before you get your wish of banning cars completely, there are one hell of a lot of, let us say, matters to be considered.
Out of interest, do you own a car, where do you live and work and do you have a family?

 

[BLOCK F]

I agree ... We moved to one car (from two) over a year ago. And we only use the car if we have to ... Tesco shop for example. We use the 700 bus loads now ... and also the train. And loads of walking too. I did an 8.5 mile round trip walk to Sainsbury's in Hove from Shoreham Beach a few weeks back to take a bag of stretchy plastic back that we'd accumulated over a number of months. I visit an old school pal in Bournemouth a few times a year. Always used to drive but the last 2/3 years I've travelled by train.

At some point, hopefully we can find a way to ditch the car altogether ... we're just not there yet!

All very worthy, I am sure.
Not everyone has the time or ability to walk 8.5 miles to take a bag of plastic from A to B.( I wish I could walk 1 mile.)
We go to Bournemouth several times a year and travel from West Sussex. We go via the New Forest and stop for coffee and sometimes lunch, then book into the hotel if we are staying. We may then use he car to go to various places in the area...............sinners both of us!
I won't bore you with how we need a car if we go down to Devon and Cornwall for a break or near home when we simply want to help out with the grandson!
Perhaps there is hope and redemption for us yet; we haven't flown on holiday for over 30 years and have never been on any cruises!