[Technology] Petrol and diesel cars banned from 2035...

[Silverhatch]

Corbyn is pilloried for his super fast broadband plan, but perhaps he sold it the wrong way?

The strategy should’ve read “While we are going to have to spend £500-£1000 billion digging up every road in the country to lay a new National grid to power electric vehicles and home boilers, we might as well lay new fibre at the same time.”

This country’s infrastructure cannot currently handle the mass adoption/charging of electric vehicles and boilers. Doubt we can currently power them either. That’s the real challenge and cost.

 

[Dick Head]

Were you being serious? Expecting me to mingle with the worker minions?
I'd rather be accused of killing the planet than mix with.....them!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

All very worthy, I am sure.
Not everyone has the time or ability to walk 8.5 miles to take a bag of plastic from A to B.( I wish I could walk 1 mile.)
We go to Bournemouth several times a year and travel from West Sussex. We go via the New Forest and stop for coffee and sometimes lunch, then book into the hotel if we are staying. We may then use he car to go to various places in the area...............sinners both of us!
I won't bore you with how we need a car if we go down to Devon and Cornwall for a break or near home when we simply want to help out with the grandson!
Perhaps there is hope and redemption for us yet; we haven't flown on holiday for over 30 years and have never been on any cruises!

I'm not looking to be 'worthy' and not knocking anyone else for having/using a car. I didn't say "if I can do it so can everyone else" ... everyones situation is different ... I understand that. Yes, I'm in the position of having time to go for a nice long walk having retired early following redundancy. And same as you ... one of the reasons we couldn't do without a car at the moment is because of helping out with our grandchildren ... the third was born just last week.

My post was just to try and add to the conversation and talk about some of the little changes we have tried to make.

But I'm coming around to the fact that it's maybe not worth making any comment on here ...

 

[FatSuperman]

I am sure you are correct. Two points though

Firstly, large scale Lithium mining is bad for the environment in the locations where it takes place, even at the current scale, let alone at the volume that will be required. There are similar concerns over the mining of cobalt, nickel and graphite which are needed for the batteries. Possibly a price that has to be paid for the greater good, but we should acknowledge that there is a price to be paid. And not by us in the UK.

Secondly, battery and EV production (and recycling) is not carbon neutral. There is a tendency to present EV as all good, and the petrol engine all bad, and all I am suggesting is there is a more balanced conversation to be had.

Boris's announcement has one probably unintended result - he's put a hex on hybrid vehicles, I think there may be some bargains to be had. Hopefully.

Well, for the most part the mining of lithium is nowhere near as environmentally damaging as other types of mining.. Mainly it’s coming from brine lakes, which are just using evaporation. Hard rock lithium mines from pegmatites aren’t bad either really, compared to most mining.

It’s the processing and manufacture of the battery that will have by far the biggest impact on the environment. That and in some networks, the massive coal strip mines used to provide the fuel for the electricity.

But let’s not pretend that pumping oil out of the ground is benign, just cos the damage is all underground. Except those oil / tar sand projects. Those are done on a MASSIVE scale and look like pure devastation.

Primary lithium is way cheaper than recycled at the moment, but that will change as the raw material gets scarcer. Sadly, there is no correct answer to ‘how do we build a green small passenger vehicle?’

Electric cars are brand new, the combustion engine has had decades to be refined into something incredibly efficient for what it is. Lithium whips have a lot of improvement to be gained yet.

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm not looking to be 'worthy' and not knocking anyone else for having/using a car. I didn't say "if I can do it so can everyone else" ... everyones situation is different ... I understand that. Yes, I'm in the position of having time to go for a nice long walk having retired early following redundancy. And same as you ... one of the reasons we couldn't do without a car at the moment is because of helping out with our grandchildren ... the third was born just last week.

My post was just to try and add to the conversation and talk about some of the little changes we have tried to make.

But I'm coming around to the fact that it's maybe not worth making any comment on here ...


Hi heavyheart, something has gone wrong with this reply.........I must have pushed the wrong button or something!
If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. No offence was intended. Perhaps I was unduly influenced by one or two strident posts and took yours to be in the same vein!
I am also envious of your ability to walk such a long way; a chronic back condition means my mobility is severely limited.
Anyway, carry on posting and good luck with the grandchildren; our little fellow has just given me a stinking cold!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I'm not looking to be 'worthy' and not knocking anyone else for having/using a car. I didn't say "if I can do it so can everyone else" ... everyones situation is different ... I understand that. Yes, I'm in the position of having time to go for a nice long walk having retired early following redundancy. And same as you ... one of the reasons we couldn't do without a car at the moment is because of helping out with our grandchildren ... the third was born just last week.

My post was just to try and add to the conversation and talk about some of the little changes we have tried to make.

But I'm coming around to the fact that it's maybe not worth making any comment on here ...


Hi heavyheart, something has gone wrong with this reply.........I must have pushed the wrong button or something!
If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. No offence was intended. Perhaps I was unduly influenced by one or two strident posts and took yours to be in the same vein!
I am also envious of your ability to walk such a long way; a chronic back condition means my mobility is severely limited.
Anyway, carry on posting and good luck with the grandchildren; our little fellow has just given me a stinking cold!

No worries ... apology accepted

Sorry to hear about your back condition - can't be easy. I think we can all maybe just try a little bit more to help the environment ... but totally accept that everyone's personal situation is different.

My wife picked up a cold from one of our grandkids a few days ago. I've been trying to avoid it as I'm donating a pint of my red stuff this afternoon!!

 

[Stat Brother]

BBC now reporting the government plans to bring this forward to 2030.

 

[Icy Gull]

BBC now reporting the government plans to bring this forward to 2030.

You’d think they had bigger imminent issues. As an aside I wonder if they’ll get around to spending a small percentage of what they get from petrol, diesel and road tax anytime soon on the third world roads we now have by 2030

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

I don't think electric cars are the way to go.
Too many issues with charging, range and whatnot.
Hydrogen fuel driven cars is the way forward.

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

Even if that is true now, why would you think that it would remain true in the future?

The rate the technology has been developed in the last 5, 10, 20 years is incredible and it shows no signs of slowing.

The argument for hydrogen fuel cells is still strong, but getting weaker every day as it is certainly looking like electric cars will overcome the problems you mention imminently, if they haven't already.. Tesla has been a game changer to be fair.

thats a false argument though. most people who can afford an electric car are also likely to have a driveway or garage to put it in. no way will the country be ready to have charging points in sufficient numbers. even then they are lethal to pedestirans. Ive tripped over one before now when crossing the road between two park cars and worrying more about getting hit from traffic behind than the fact there was a charging cable sticking out the rear of the car

 

[Icy Gull]

Electric cars suck the soul out of driving for this old codger, can’t see myself ever going down that route.

I did once say I’d never buy a diesel car...but I did

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Even if that is true now, why would you think that it would remain true in the future?

The rate the technology has been developed in the last 5, 10, 20 years is incredible and it shows no signs of slowing.

The argument for hydrogen fuel cells is still strong, but getting weaker every day as it is certainly looking like electric cars will overcome the problems you mention imminently, if they haven't already.. Tesla has been a game changer to be fair.

Yes that is true.
Tesla in particular seems to be making great leaps in some of those issues.
Maybe I am thinking to much in terms of a quick switch right here and now from petrol/diesel to something viable right now rather than thinking in terms of a long term solution..

 

[Baldseagull]

thats a false argument though. most people who can afford an electric car are also likely to have a driveway or garage to put it in. no way will the country be ready to have charging points in sufficient numbers. even then they are lethal to pedestirans. Ive tripped over one before now when crossing the road between two park cars and worrying more about getting hit from traffic behind than the fact there was a charging cable sticking out the rear of the car

The way it is now, you are correct.
However, massively energy dense batteries, rapid charging, and batteries that are part of the structure, are three technological advances where progress is being made that could eliminate the current issues regarding how to get juiced up.

 

[Swansman]

Problem got solved about 5000 years ago when horses were domesticated.

You can charge them almost anywhere, their lifespan is longer than that of the average car and they are quite decent for the environment (not using any limited resources, when they die you can eat them etc). Only problem is that they are a bit slower but thats fine, slowing society down a little bit would probably be good for all of us.