Perpetual motion?

[symyjym]

But gravity is being used to convert potential energy into kinetic energy in that machine by the dropping of the track to make it so that the track just in front of the ball is the lowest point, helping the ball move around (also aided by pendulums and magnets to keep it moving)

Good effort but when Triggger gets his teeth into something the only intention is a perpetual pedantic argument.

 

[Trufflehound]

There seem to be three types of people posting on this thread.

Those who understand maths and physics.

And those who don't.

 

[symyjym]

Well you did say 'Perpetual Motion' and then added a question mark, thus inviting a debate.

Of course there is no debate. It's not a perpetual motion machine. A perpetual motion machine is a closed system and at the very least nothing is making up the friction energy lost by the ball as it travels around the track.

No it has nothing to do with the machine, it's about the definition of gravity which is a force that creates potential energy. I casually called it energy but Triggar, being into pedantics, took issue with the use of the word and got his teeth stuck in.

 

[rogersix]

Well everything I have Googled is in disagreement with you.

every heavenly body spins, they have to. absolutely everything. the sun, moon, all of the planets, black holes, galaxies, everything.
read up about the magnetosphere that is the sun, it's fascinating; creating sunspots and the ionic solar wind which forms the borealis.
all of this requires energy derived from the fusion reactor known as the great god RA!

 

[rogersix]

One thing I'd like to know, is where they found people stupid enough to watch that for 3 days?

they weren't just watching it, they were obviously negotiating for the patent

 

[rogersix]

I said: gravity and magnitism is energy'

i believe einstein no less, described gravity as a distortion in the space time continuum thingumy, caused by matter;
(stuff with mass[cold energy]), you can't turn gravity into energy but you can with matter

 

[Pevenseagull]

What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

Sadly their careers didn't overlap but if they had one way to find out was for Duffy to mark Duncan Ferguson defending a corner.

I would love to see that.

 

[rogersix]

FFS you are sounding pretty desperate. You can clearly see that the machine uses a spring motion to lift the ball and the force it creates when it lands gives it a push like a pinball flipper, so yes the machine uses gravity. That's what I pointed out, that gravity is used but you want to make me look like an idiot.

I made a simple observation about the machine and you have turned this discussion into a monster. It's not the first time you have done this either, you strawmanned me the other week.

TBF to [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION], he is desperately trying to explain to you this thing that you are quite obviously interested in curiosity is good!
it doesn't lift the ball, the rails are raised and lowered. the flipper as you call, it gives some energy to the pendulums
by the by, what does strawmanned mean?

 

[Brovion]

No it has nothing to do with the machine, it's about the definition of gravity which is a force that creates potential energy. I casually called it energy but Triggar, being into pedantics, took issue with the use of the word and got his teeth stuck in.

Ok, I'm not going to get drawn into that debate. So long as we're clear that it isn't a perpetual motion machine (as that is impossible), then fine

 

[rogersix]

I've got a 100 year old wind up clock that you can watch run for 8 days without slowing down if you want.

where do you live? i've packed me jimjams

 

[Triggaaar]

by the by, what does strawmanned mean?

He felt I tried to make an argument about something he hadn't said. I just responded to one of his posts, perhaps without full regard to the context in which it was made, and it escalated from there.

where do you live? i've packed me jimjams

I'm in Ho.. er, erm, Horsham. Yes, Horsham, that's it.

 

[rogersix]

Note that although a lot smaller than earth, and a long way away, the moon is still able to reduce the effect of earth's gravity on us, which is why we have tides.

i don't mean to be pedantic but tides are; moon/sun, 50/50!

 

[Triggaaar]

Good effort but when Triggger gets his teeth into something the only intention is a perpetual pedantic argument.

That's a slight misrepresentation of the truth. It's true that if I know I'm right I'll argue 'til the end. But I'm not doing it to be pedantic. I am guilty of being pedantic, but that's a separate thing. People often pick me up on my mistakes in a pedantic way, and I've no issue with that, I find it funny. I'm only arguing about this because you have it all wrong.

No it has nothing to do with the machine, it's about the definition of gravity which is a force that creates potential energy. I casually called it energy but Triggar, being into pedantics, took issue with the use of the word and got his teeth stuck in.

No, I took issue with the fact that you thought that the machine wasn't losing energy by making heat and noise, because you thought gravity was providing energy back to the machine. That has nothing to do with being pedantic, you just misunderstood how the machine works (which, to be fair, is the intention of the video) and I tried to explain it. I told you I wasn't being pedantic, I was being honest and straightforward, you clearly don't believe me, you think I'm just being a ****, which is why I'm now pissed off with you.

You obviously can't have gravitational potential energy without gravity, but that doesn't mean gravity is creating the energy. It probably seems pedantic to you, but knowing that gravity doesn't create potential energy is important to understanding why the original video is a hoax.

 

[rogersix]

It is not potential energy, it's an interesting concept and seemingly fairly efficient machine

it's not a machine it's a toy. if it worked he would be the most celebrated, richest man on earth.
instead of sculpting gorgeous women he would be

 

[Triggaaar]

i don't mean to be pedantic but tides are; moon/sun, 50/50!

I'm now going to spend 10 hours researching whether it's exactly 50/50, or slightly more one than the other

 

[yxee]

This can't work, energy is lost as sound, heat from rolling friction in the ball, the track, and the other moving parts, and via viscous dissipation of the air that has to move out of the way of the ball. That energy comes from the kinetic energy in the ball.

A grandfather clock maintains its motion for months without being touched, that alone does not demonstrate perpetual motion. The moon has been rotating around the earth for millions of years, why don't people find that amazing as it's far closer to a perpetual motion machine than this. Even the moon loses some energy via to tidal forces and is not truly perpetual.

 

[rogersix]

Eh? If you convert split a molecule into its atoms, you don't lose energy as far as I know. They all still have the same potential energy.

splitting the water molecule and reforming it both require energy(living things!). all of [MENTION=8619]Guy Fawkes[/MENTION] 's examples aren't isolated systems

 

[rogersix]

There are only two basic types of energy - kinetic and potential. The bits that are moving have kinetic energy, and the spring that are wound have potential, the pendulums at the end of their stroke have potential, etc.

there are lots, not that i can remember them all! but, chemical and thermal are two more

 

[Triggaaar]

there are lots, not that i can remember them all! but, chemical and thermal are two more

No, they're both forms of potential energy.

 

[rogersix]

I bet there's not another football forum on the planet that has a 5 page thread like this.


Goodnight.

we are not home and dry yet; not even home and vigorously towelling ourselves off!