[Football] PELE

[blue-shifted]

This is a fair point, I think. Messi has never really done it in a world cup, where as players like Pele, Maradona and even Zidane have draggef their teams almost single-handedly through tournaments. Messi is clearly one of the best ever, but the standard of 90% of La Liga outside Barca and Real Madrid is pretty poor, considering the level of the players he has had playing alongside him. If Messi really wanted to be considered as the best ever, then he should have had the balls to come to the Premier League, to show that he can do it another environment. Like Ronaldo has.

Yes, certainly don't want to be in any way against Messi, because I love football, and he is brilliant.

But I do think he hasn't been willing to put his reputation on the line. It wouldn't have to be England, he could go to Juve, Munich, somewhere out of his comfort zone. The jury is still out as to how he gets on when playing outside the Spanish league, (which is not much more than a better version of the Scottish league). World Cups, Copa America and in the Champions League, certainly in the last 10 years he's not had the impact which in my view marks him out as the GOAT

In terms of the World Cup. Pete was at the head of one very good team and one all time great team. Arguably Maradona possesses the single greatest World Cup performance in taking that 86 team to the title

 

[theboybilly]

I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

It's a shame that Pele never played in Italy or Spain so we might know his true position of greatness. For me though he is also at a disadvantage over others as we don't get to see all his goals. Many obviously were against poor opposition but no player sparked as much interest in me and my schoolmates (apart from George Best) from the snippets we saw on TV or 'properly' at World Cup finals. Watching him get targeted at Goodison in 1966 told me that he must be a great player which was borne out 4 years later with that marvellous entertaining Brazil team.

 

[Lush]

I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

Watched the 'Diego Maradona' film on DVD on the weekend. By the same film-makers who did 'Senna'and 'Amy'. Highly highly recommended.

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

Watched the 'Diego Maradona' film on DVD on the weekend. By the same film-makers who did 'Senna'and 'Amy'. Highly highly recommended.

I watched this last night. Maradona single-handedly dragged that Argentina team to WC glory in ‘86 - incredible stuff. That WC really demonstrates the best and worse of Maradona. His Godly genius with a football and the impish devil that would win at all costs.

With Napoli he took seasonal relegation candidates to two league titles and an UEFA Cup. That’s the equivalent of Messi or Ronaldo rocking up at the Amex and doing the same. I knew Maradona had connection to the Mafia and used cocaine. However, I didn’t realize how much of his career he was high for and still performed. The part of the documentary surrounding Italia ‘90, knocking Italy out of the WC on home soil in Napoli’s stadium no less and the repercussions from that were great viewing and very insightful into just how corrupt Italy was (and maybe still is).

 

[blue-shifted]

I watched this last night. Maradona single-handedly dragged that Argentina team to WC glory in ‘86 - incredible stuff. That WC really demonstrates the best and worse of Maradona. His Godly genius with a football and the impish devil that would win at all costs.

With Napoli he took seasonal relegation candidates to two league titles and an UEFA Cup. That’s the equivalent of Messi or Ronaldo rocking up at the Amex and doing the same. I knew Maradona had connection to the Mafia and used cocaine. However, I didn’t realize how much of his career he was high for and still performed. The part of the documentary surrounding Italia ‘90, knocking Italy out of the WC on home soil in Napoli’s stadium no less and the repercussions from that were great viewing and very insightful into just how corrupt Italy was (and maybe still is).

And that, in fairness is another criteria to being considered the GOAT.

The ability to perform, whilst you're off your tits ........ let's see if you can still score 6 against Levante after you've snorted this little lot Lionel

 

[Perfidious Albion]

"Maradona single-handedly"

HANDEDLY is the word for it !

Pele is a real superstar, a better footballer than Maradona, he could play anywhere on the pitch and score. He had, or has , a great character. ..a sporting role model.

I am sorry to read of his present ill health and disabilities. He should not hide away, the man is greatly loved.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

 

[zefarelly]

Opinions I know but I really don't know how you can say Messi was "clearly" better.

Different times but the guy won three world cups. Messi has never really cut it on the international stage.

George Best is my favourite player of all time but I could never say whether he was better than Pele or not....

Quite. You can't compare players of different eras, or different positions for that matter.

We won't even mention personality.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I’d always go Pele as the GOAT. Amazing record, but so difficult to compare over different era’s.

If Pele benefitted from today’s training and dietary advice he might have been even better.

As for Maradona great player but tainted in so many ways.....




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[indy3050]

Maradona for me, coke head, genius, not afraid of kicking in anyone in his way!

 

[LlcoolJ]

And that, in fairness is another criteria to being considered the GOAT.

The ability to perform, whilst you're off your tits ........ let's see if you can still score 6 against Levante after you've snorted this little lot Lionel

Cocaine is performance enhancing. It really is. Sharpens the mind in short term, quick decisions, reduces fatigue massively, oh and makes you think you're the king of the world and capable of anything.

The more pertinent question would be "How good would Maradona have been if he HADN'T been off his tits?".

The cheating ****.

 

[Robinjakarta]

Just seen a tweet from the Moose on Talksport that his friend Pele is very ill and wishing him the very best on his recovery.

Quite simply the greatest of all time, I am sure we are all as the football family wishing him the very best in coming through.

And a SPORTSMAN, unlike that nasty cheat Maradona.

 

[crodonilson]

Happy 80th birthday to Pele from all of the football family. Have a great day my friend.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Happy Birthday.

Keep it up!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Happy 80th birthday to Pele from all of the football family. Have a great day my friend.

Would you mind getting me his autograph? Please.

 

[Beanstalk]

THE MAN CAN DO EVERYTHING

 

[crodonilson]

Would you mind getting me his autograph? Please.

No but better than that I have got Ainsley Harriotts...

 

[Peter Grummit]

Who you think is the best player of all time is determined in large part by your age and therefore who was the greatest in your formative years. So, for me it is Pele and Garry Sobers in cricket.

 

[SimpKingpin]

Who you think is the best player of all time is determined in large part by your age and therefore who was the greatest in your formative years. So, for me it is Pele and Garry Sobers in cricket.

This 100%.
Maradona for me.
It's a bias built into me from those formative years.

BTW you can/could watch the greatest football documentary of all time on Amazon Prime: HERO (depends on your region I guess).

Official documentary of 1986 World Cup. Narrated by Michael Caine. Music by Rick Wakeman.

Not sure how it ages tbh, especially the music, but I used to watch it non-stop on VHS (maybe Betamax ).

There's a section on the "Danish short passing machine" (with Laudrup and Elkjaer) which is how I imagine Potter wants us to play eventually!

For whatever reason (I've never been able to get to the bottom of it) this documentary was never upgraded to DVD. It's legit VHS quality!

 

[crodonilson]

Who you think is the best player of all time is determined in large part by your age and therefore who was the greatest in your formative years. So, for me it is Pele and Garry Sobers in cricket.

In some sports it is worthy of discussion but in other sports there is little doubt who is the greatest.

Football - Pele
Golf - Tiger
Darts - Phil Taylor