readingstockport
New member
So the fact nazis slaughtered jews gives jews the right to slaughter palestinians? Intersting take on morality.
Me, I think the nazis were wrong and I think the way israel behaves is also wrong.
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Peace Ship Attacked
- Thread starter SULLY COULDNT SHOOT
- Start date
So the fact nazis slaughtered jews gives jews the right to slaughter palestinians? Intersting take on morality.
Me, I think the nazis were wrong and I think the way israel behaves is also wrong.
readingstockport
New member
And of course the israelis are well known for telling the truth about how their troops never ever EVER open fire on defenceless people with no provocation.
Just ask the families of Tom Hurndall or Tristan Anderson to name but two.
Just ask the families of Tom Hurndall or Tristan Anderson to name but two.
daveinprague
New member
The more I hear about this today, the more it sounds less like the IDF 'battering' anybody, and more like panic induced bungling by so called élite IDF troops resulting in people being killed and injured.. Pretty sure Israeli citizens can expect a response. The IDF performance in Lebanon against Hezbollah pretty much shattered the myth of the IDF. This incident pretty much confirms it to me. Fecked up planning, and execution.
Last edited:
Common as Mook
Not Posh as Fook
- Jul 26, 2004
- 5,642
Hahaha you soppy twat! That was all a bit uncalled for. Calmed down yet?
I have family members LIVING IN THE REGION so excuse me if I happen to lean on their side if the argument. So stop being such s reactionary berk and use your limited intelligence to see the facts when they are presented to you.
As someone else said, quite what this has to do with the Holocaust I don't know. This is a Palestine/Israel argument.
Ps-your Mum.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Well, they are Terrorists!
Think you'll find the only terrorists are the Israeli's.... what did they start out as back in the early 50's let me guess oh yes a terrorist organisation
readingstockport
New member
Think you'll find the only terrorists are the Israeli's.... what did they start out as back in the early 50's let me guess oh yes a terrorist organisation
No no no no no. They were FREEDOM FIGHTERS.
It's only the others who are terrorists don't you understand that?
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Oh yes of course silly me .... have to tell my dad that because he was based there and attacked most nights by them.
Steve Foster
Well-known member
As you obviously do not possess any qualifications in History, I will reitorate the unequivocable
facts:
Even before the British Mandate, it was the Jews who were known as the Palestinians, not the Arabs. It wasn't until 1964 that the Arabs claimed the name for a non-existent people. Unfortunately, the world chooses ignorance over facts, and so this non-existent people have suddenly became a people, complete with a non-existent history.
Steve Foster
Well-known member
readingstockport
New member
Steve Foster
Well-known member
Below is an article by Israeli journalist Ron Ben Yishai for the Israeli newspaper Yediot Achronot in which he provides a first hand account of the Israeli operation to take control of the Turkish-led flotilla. The Israel Project hopes you find this of interest.
Ben Yishai, Ron, "A Brutal Ambush at Sea," YnetNews, May 31, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html
For Video Footage of the Gaza Flotilla
A Brutal Ambush at Sea
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israel Project is an international non-profit organization devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace. The Israel Project provides journalists, leaders and opinion-makers accurate information about Israel. The Israel Project is not related to any government or government agency
Ben Yishai, Ron, "A Brutal Ambush at Sea," YnetNews, May 31, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html
For Video Footage of the Gaza Flotilla
A Brutal Ambush at Sea
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Israel Project is an international non-profit organization devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace. The Israel Project provides journalists, leaders and opinion-makers accurate information about Israel. The Israel Project is not related to any government or government agency
Dandyman
In London village.
Just as people in this country do not hold only one view of the world, nor do people in Israel:
Gush Shalom - Israeli Peace Bloc
LET THE AID BOATS THROUGH TO GAZA! END THE SIEGE!
The State of Israel has no interest in flooding television screens all over the world with footage of its navy violently assaulting against peace activists at sea. It is time to remove the suffocating siege and allow residents of Gaza to have free contact with the outside world, freely operate sea and air ports of their own like any country in the world.
The Gush Shalom movement calls upon the government to allow the eight-boat aid flotilla from all over the world to reach the shores of Gaza, where they are scheduled to arrive next week, and unload the humanitarian cargo which is urgently needed by the residents of Gaza. In a letter to Defense Minister Barak, Gush Shalom calls upon him to cancel immediately the instructions given to Israeli Navy ships off the Gaza shore to intercept the aid flotilla.
"The whole world is looking. The State of Israel has no interest in flooding the international television screens with images of Israeli sailors and naval commandos violently assaulting hundreds of peace activists and humanitarian aid workers, many of them well-known in their countries. Whose interest will it serve when hours long dramatic live reports arrive from the Mediteranean, with the world's sympathy given to hundreds of non-violent activists, on board eight boats, assaulted by the strongest military power in the Middle East?" were the words of a letter to the Defense Minister.
No harm whatsoever will be caused to Israel from the aid flotilla reaching Gaza Port and unloading a cargo of medical supplies and medicines, school supplies and construction materials to rebuild the houses destroyed by the Israeli Air Force a year and half ago and not yet been restored. On the contrary, it would be in Israel's best interest to declare without delay that as a humanitarian gesture, the boats' way will not be blocked. And in general, it is time to end once and for all the suffocating siege imposed on the Gaza Strip and causing terrible suffering to its million and a half inhabitants.
The siege on Gaza utterly failed in all the goals set for it by the government of Israel. The siege was supposed to result in toppling the Hamas government – and on the contrary strengthened this government, which relied on the support of a significant part of the Palestinian People. The siege was supposed to help in gaining the release of captured soldier Gilad Shalit - but on the contrary, the siege just delays that release, which could have been achieved long ago had the government of Israel agreed to the prisoner exchange deal, on which most of the details have been decided long ago. It's time to end this cruel and pointless siege.
The residents of the Gaza Strip, like the citizens of Israel and of any other country in the world, have the right to maintain direct contacts with the outside world - to leave their country and return to it, to develop their economy, to import the products they need and export their own produce to anyone who wants to buy it, without asking or needing for permission from Israel, Egypt or any other country. Just as Israel needs no permit from any other country to operate daily the sea ports of Ashdod and Haifa and Eilat and the Ben Gurion International Airport, so are the Palestinians and their state to be entitled to run their own sea port and airport in the Gaza Strip. Let the flotilla of humanitarian aid from all over the world be given the honour of inaugurating the sovereign Palestinian Port of Gaza!.
Gush Shalom - Israeli Peace Bloc
LET THE AID BOATS THROUGH TO GAZA! END THE SIEGE!
The State of Israel has no interest in flooding television screens all over the world with footage of its navy violently assaulting against peace activists at sea. It is time to remove the suffocating siege and allow residents of Gaza to have free contact with the outside world, freely operate sea and air ports of their own like any country in the world.
The Gush Shalom movement calls upon the government to allow the eight-boat aid flotilla from all over the world to reach the shores of Gaza, where they are scheduled to arrive next week, and unload the humanitarian cargo which is urgently needed by the residents of Gaza. In a letter to Defense Minister Barak, Gush Shalom calls upon him to cancel immediately the instructions given to Israeli Navy ships off the Gaza shore to intercept the aid flotilla.
"The whole world is looking. The State of Israel has no interest in flooding the international television screens with images of Israeli sailors and naval commandos violently assaulting hundreds of peace activists and humanitarian aid workers, many of them well-known in their countries. Whose interest will it serve when hours long dramatic live reports arrive from the Mediteranean, with the world's sympathy given to hundreds of non-violent activists, on board eight boats, assaulted by the strongest military power in the Middle East?" were the words of a letter to the Defense Minister.
No harm whatsoever will be caused to Israel from the aid flotilla reaching Gaza Port and unloading a cargo of medical supplies and medicines, school supplies and construction materials to rebuild the houses destroyed by the Israeli Air Force a year and half ago and not yet been restored. On the contrary, it would be in Israel's best interest to declare without delay that as a humanitarian gesture, the boats' way will not be blocked. And in general, it is time to end once and for all the suffocating siege imposed on the Gaza Strip and causing terrible suffering to its million and a half inhabitants.
The siege on Gaza utterly failed in all the goals set for it by the government of Israel. The siege was supposed to result in toppling the Hamas government – and on the contrary strengthened this government, which relied on the support of a significant part of the Palestinian People. The siege was supposed to help in gaining the release of captured soldier Gilad Shalit - but on the contrary, the siege just delays that release, which could have been achieved long ago had the government of Israel agreed to the prisoner exchange deal, on which most of the details have been decided long ago. It's time to end this cruel and pointless siege.
The residents of the Gaza Strip, like the citizens of Israel and of any other country in the world, have the right to maintain direct contacts with the outside world - to leave their country and return to it, to develop their economy, to import the products they need and export their own produce to anyone who wants to buy it, without asking or needing for permission from Israel, Egypt or any other country. Just as Israel needs no permit from any other country to operate daily the sea ports of Ashdod and Haifa and Eilat and the Ben Gurion International Airport, so are the Palestinians and their state to be entitled to run their own sea port and airport in the Gaza Strip. Let the flotilla of humanitarian aid from all over the world be given the honour of inaugurating the sovereign Palestinian Port of Gaza!.
readingstockport
New member
I refer you to utterly totally completely false reports from israeli 'journalists' and from the idf and israeli government concerning the murder of tom hurndall and various others.
Personally I would regard the report of ANY embedded journalist from what ever side with very deep suspiscion.
Dandyman
In London village.
In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman "Provincia Judaea" and so renamed it "Provincia Syria Palaestina", the Latin version of the Greek name and the first use of the name as an administrative unit. The name "Provincia Syria Palaestina" was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized "Palestine" is derived.
This remained the situation until the end of the fourth century, when in the wake of a general imperial reorganization Palestine became three Palestines: First, Second, and Third. This configuration is believed to have persisted into the seventh century, the time of the Persian and Muslim conquests.
The Christian Crusaders employed the word Palestine to refer to the general region of the "three Palestines." After the fall of the crusader kingdom, Palestine was no longer an official designation. The name, however, continued to be used informally for the lands on both sides of the Jordan River. The Ottoman Turks, who were non-Arabs but religious Muslims, ruled the area for 400 years (1517-1917). Under Ottoman rule, the Palestine region was attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. The name Palestine was revived after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I and applied to the territory in this region that was placed under the British Mandate.
readingstockport
New member
Ron Ben Yishai is the former press spokeman for the former president of israel and is probably as trustworthy as alistar campbell. He was also sued by one of the greatest people currnetly living, Mordechai Vanunu, for libel. He made no attempt to claim his remarks were true, simply claiming that he was quoting the head of shin bet and as such enjoyed 'the good faith and truth defenses'.
You chose who you want to believe, I'll treat this 'journalists' evidence with cheshire plains worth of salt.
You chose who you want to believe, I'll treat this 'journalists' evidence with cheshire plains worth of salt.
HampshireSeagulls
Moulding Generation Z
Sorry Steve, that "report" is bollocks on so many levels it qualifies as a children's fictional account. Where do we start?
Below is an article by Israeli journalist Ron Ben Yishai for the Israeli newspaper Yediot Achronot in which he provides a first hand account of the Israeli operation to take control of the Turkish-led flotilla. The Israel Project hopes you find this of interest.
Written by a journalist who claims first hand experience, yet seems to have been almost the only person not to have been attacked by the crew members?
Ben Yishai, Ron, "A Brutal Ambush at Sea," YnetNews, May 31, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...896796,00.html
For Video Footage of the Gaza Flotilla
A Brutal Ambush at Sea
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Tied to an antenna? Horseshit. So with a helicopter they were unable to exert pressure on the rope to stop it being tied on? In ANY boarding operation the rope never goes to the deck, it goes above the deck to prevent fouling.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
The commandos went down one by one? They are an elite force yet they insert one at a time? Again, shite. They would have dropped in either two or four to provide cover. If they were inserting using a one-at-a-time method then they should have stayed at home practicing insertion technique on their ducks in the bath.
As for being equipped with paintball rifles - why? No force in their right mind issues their troops with more weaponry than they need for this sort of task. Why would you issue paintball rifles along with personal weapons and sidearms? More clutter. Perhaps the IDF would like to claim the blood was only the red paintballs exploding? And as for them being beaten up - the IDF use a method of self defence called Krav Maga - designed to be effective in this sort of situation and created by Imi Lichtenfield as a defence system to be used when at a disadvantage. They all need to go back and retake their training if not one soldier was able to use this effectively!
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
"Don't shoot"? At sea, above the noise of the helicopter and in the panic and confusion - they relied on people shouting at each other "don't shoot"? What happened to rules of engagement, the planning before the execution of the operation, radio communications?
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs.
Verbally convince? They are all multilingual now are they? Bollocks.
They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
More shouting - and suddenly they have stun grenades in addition to paintball rifles, personal weapons and sidearms?
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter.
30 Elite commandos against 30 rioters? Jesus H, what a shambles. What happened to tactical effectiveness - are they trying to claim that each commando was involved in single hand to hand combat (for which they are extensively trained) and could not subdue? Were they not equipped with zipties?
At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
The Chain of Command needs dropping from 30 feet onto their bloody heads. No clear guidelines on the use of lethal force? Guns being taken from "elite" commandos? Shooting at legs - get a grip - not one single force in the entire world shoots to maim - they all shoot to kill. What about ricochets, the moving platform? They would have shot to kill unless they were shitting themselves and shooting without control - which judging by the way this went looks more likely. A bloody boy scout outing.
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
Why was the rear end of the ship not secured to allow the insertion of troops? Hitting their hands? Again, absolute horseshit. Why did they not simply engage the bridge of the ship - once they had started shooting, they should have stepped to the next logical point, the one which would have prevented the escalation of internal ship violence. Engage the bridge, stop the ship. Sounds more like they were keener to insert as many men as possible to exact some sort of revenge. Then again, this was in international waters, completely illegal and appears to have been a complete cock up - or something far more sinister being presented as a cock up. Look at the USS Liberty if you want to see what Israel is capable of.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
They got Bangkok? With the Israeli intelligence system, one of the most effective in the world, they expected to meet girl scouts? Bollocks. And as for the bit about a "larger group" - earlier in the article he says it was 30 against 30. Should have proof read that bit, huh?
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
Why not do this anyway? To clear the upper deck, where they had already "tried to tie a helicopter to an antenna" they should have used non-lethal area clearance. Overall, a load of state-sponsored news horseshit. They have f***ed up and been caught out and they try to turn it into a paintballing session that went wrong.
Below is an article by Israeli journalist Ron Ben Yishai for the Israeli newspaper Yediot Achronot in which he provides a first hand account of the Israeli operation to take control of the Turkish-led flotilla. The Israel Project hopes you find this of interest.
Written by a journalist who claims first hand experience, yet seems to have been almost the only person not to have been attacked by the crew members?
Ben Yishai, Ron, "A Brutal Ambush at Sea," YnetNews, May 31, 2010, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...896796,00.html
For Video Footage of the Gaza Flotilla
A Brutal Ambush at Sea
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Tied to an antenna? Horseshit. So with a helicopter they were unable to exert pressure on the rope to stop it being tied on? In ANY boarding operation the rope never goes to the deck, it goes above the deck to prevent fouling.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
The commandos went down one by one? They are an elite force yet they insert one at a time? Again, shite. They would have dropped in either two or four to provide cover. If they were inserting using a one-at-a-time method then they should have stayed at home practicing insertion technique on their ducks in the bath.
As for being equipped with paintball rifles - why? No force in their right mind issues their troops with more weaponry than they need for this sort of task. Why would you issue paintball rifles along with personal weapons and sidearms? More clutter. Perhaps the IDF would like to claim the blood was only the red paintballs exploding? And as for them being beaten up - the IDF use a method of self defence called Krav Maga - designed to be effective in this sort of situation and created by Imi Lichtenfield as a defence system to be used when at a disadvantage. They all need to go back and retake their training if not one soldier was able to use this effectively!
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
"Don't shoot"? At sea, above the noise of the helicopter and in the panic and confusion - they relied on people shouting at each other "don't shoot"? What happened to rules of engagement, the planning before the execution of the operation, radio communications?
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs.
Verbally convince? They are all multilingual now are they? Bollocks.
They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
More shouting - and suddenly they have stun grenades in addition to paintball rifles, personal weapons and sidearms?
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter.
30 Elite commandos against 30 rioters? Jesus H, what a shambles. What happened to tactical effectiveness - are they trying to claim that each commando was involved in single hand to hand combat (for which they are extensively trained) and could not subdue? Were they not equipped with zipties?
At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
The Chain of Command needs dropping from 30 feet onto their bloody heads. No clear guidelines on the use of lethal force? Guns being taken from "elite" commandos? Shooting at legs - get a grip - not one single force in the entire world shoots to maim - they all shoot to kill. What about ricochets, the moving platform? They would have shot to kill unless they were shitting themselves and shooting without control - which judging by the way this went looks more likely. A bloody boy scout outing.
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
Why was the rear end of the ship not secured to allow the insertion of troops? Hitting their hands? Again, absolute horseshit. Why did they not simply engage the bridge of the ship - once they had started shooting, they should have stepped to the next logical point, the one which would have prevented the escalation of internal ship violence. Engage the bridge, stop the ship. Sounds more like they were keener to insert as many men as possible to exact some sort of revenge. Then again, this was in international waters, completely illegal and appears to have been a complete cock up - or something far more sinister being presented as a cock up. Look at the USS Liberty if you want to see what Israel is capable of.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
They got Bangkok? With the Israeli intelligence system, one of the most effective in the world, they expected to meet girl scouts? Bollocks. And as for the bit about a "larger group" - earlier in the article he says it was 30 against 30. Should have proof read that bit, huh?
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
Why not do this anyway? To clear the upper deck, where they had already "tried to tie a helicopter to an antenna" they should have used non-lethal area clearance. Overall, a load of state-sponsored news horseshit. They have f***ed up and been caught out and they try to turn it into a paintballing session that went wrong.