Peace Ship Attacked

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Try to remember that Israel is surrounded by enemies and they(the Jews) have been persecuted for centuries. I do not agree with a lot of what they do but anybody who knows English history will have to accept we have taken the law into our own hands many times in the same period of time.

Post-Holocaust, Israel has taken on full responsibility for the safety of its people. And rightly so. Been there a couple of times and the attitude is definitely 'an eye for an eye'. On the whole they go in hard but fair and who could blame them in the grand scheme of things. The continued existence of their country is at stake. And they have direct experience of how the community of nations will stand by and let their innocent people be slaughtered wholesale by their enemies.

Sadly though, they tend toward heavy-handedness and seem to regard Palestinians in much the same way as the old apartheid rulers of South africa regarded non-whites, as some sort of underclass. While that is the case, they are going to lose the support of very many of their natural supporters. Which they seem happy enough to live with.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

What Steve fails to mention is the the "goods" the Israelis allow in are not as wide ranging as he might like to imply. They will not allow "large pieces of wood", jam, donkeys, ropes, building tools, metal pipework, cars, anything which they deem could be used to make money for the Palestinians. The Israelis have long been untouchable following WWII but they seem to think that they can get away with anything. Having spent time working and training with the IDF (two years), their mindset is very simple - we can do this, we will do this, and anyone that crosses us will be reminded of how we were persecuted before. The work on guilt - that they are simply defending themselves and preventing a repeat of their previous persecution. They also pulled out of a recent Middle East conference because they were going to be asked to sign up to a nuclear treaty - and whilst they want theirs, they don't want the others to have theirs. Israel have been due a shock for some time now, and even the Americans are going to find it hard to defend this one.

From experience - boarding ships can be done in a very safe way, and in fact the ships did not even need to be boarded. Landing on deck with loaded weapons, with an aggressive mindset is only going to end in one outcome. A conscript filled with ideology and terrified out of his mind is going to make a mistake. It looks like one did, sparking conflict. The ships could have been diverted or stopped using humanitarian means, but the Israelis never wanted that - they were after a show of force.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

What Steve fails to mention is the the "goods" the Israelis allow in are not as wide ranging as he might like to imply. They will not allow "large pieces of wood", jam, donkeys, ropes, building tools, metal pipework, cars, anything which they deem could be used to make money for the Palestinians. The Israelis have long been untouchable following WWII but they seem to think that they can get away with anything. Having spent time working and training with the IDF (two years), their mindset is very simple - we can do this, we will do this, and anyone that crosses us will be reminded of how we were persecuted before. The work on guilt - that they are simply defending themselves and preventing a repeat of their previous persecution. They also pulled out of a recent Middle East conference because they were going to be asked to sign up to a nuclear treaty - and whilst they want theirs, they don't want the others to have theirs. Israel have been due a shock for some time now, and even the Americans are going to find it hard to defend this one.

From experience - boarding ships can be done in a very safe way, and in fact the ships did not even need to be boarded. Landing on deck with loaded weapons, with an aggressive mindset is only going to end in one outcome. A conscript filled with ideology and terrified out of his mind is going to make a mistake. It looks like one did, sparking conflict. The ships could have been diverted or stopped using humanitarian means, but the Israelis never wanted that - they were after a show of force.

this. some of us have been to the area... have experienced what it's like and know there are people on both sides who would try and avoid this.

 

[bhaexpress]

The whole world us coming out and condemning this. That's all you need to know .

Let's hear the facts first okay ? There's two sides to every story, remember an Al Kyida terrorist escaped this country by wearing a veil, we are too trusting, the Israelis are not so from bitter experience.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Let's hear the facts first okay ? There's two sides to every story, remember an Al Kyida terrorist escaped this country by wearing a veil, we are too trusting, the Israelis are not so from bitter experience.

No. We are too trusting of anything that comes from 'official' sources. So was Neville Chamberlain.

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

This does seem like a very plausible explanation. Try to remember that Israel is surrounded by enemies and they(the Jews) have been persecuted for centuries. I do not agree with a lot of what they do but anybody who knows English history will have to accept we have taken the law into our own hands many times in the same period of time.

And did so when "creating" Israel. I believe that the current Israeli people have a right to live in peace & have a homeland but then I believe that the Palestinians also have that right. There must be a defined geographical solution to this so that each community can prosper, but who the hell knows where the solution can be found. This is all so in the hands of those who have no wish for peace because it fuels their own agenda with arms sales & the like. The reason US relations are deteriorating is due to the fact that many migrants into Israel are from the former USSR & have also brought a more hardline approach to the issue as well as arms from the East leaving the US with a gap in their arms sales figures.
This conflict is not going to change unless there is a new approach involving the young on each side to start the process of leaving the past behind, initiatives such as shared educational facilites & the like. Peace starts when honesty prevails & there is so much biased reporting this is almost impossible sadly. I can see that there is justification on both sides but there must also be accountability on both sides. Do they really wish the same pain on their children.
Perhaps a defined border with a peace buffer controlled by the international community would be a start.

 

[Common as Mook]

Let's hear the facts first okay ? There's two sides to every story, remember an Al Kyida terrorist escaped this country by wearing a veil, we are too trusting, the Israelis are not so from bitter experience.

f*** me you can be a patronising twat sometimes. I would have thought those condemning this will have made themselves au fait with the facts.

 

[Stoo82]

Mr Sully. Maybe you can translate this? Something todo with 7 dead Turkish soilders yesterday with Kurdish/Irseli forces involved?

'Tesadüf deðil' - Hürriyet

I used google tranlater, but hey, it made no sence!

 

[Stoo82]

Let's hear the facts first okay ? There's two sides to every story, remember an Al Kyida terrorist escaped this country by wearing a veil, we are too trusting, the Israelis are not so from bitter experience.

Two words.

International Waters.

 

[readingstockport]

The palestinians don't trust the israelis for damn good reasons. All the ploughed up olive groves, all the confiscated houses, all the f***ing big walls and blockades and all the dead children are DAMN good reasons imo.

As I said before I totally support the right of israel to exist within secure borders but when your foreign policy is based almost entirely on a 3000 year old fairy tale that is taking the piss quite frankly. israel does NOT have the right to Jerusalem and does not have the right to still be in illegal occupation of land captured in 1967. They do not have the right annex palestinian land just because some f***ing yank decides they want to now be called an israeli instead of american and fancies some land that a palestinian family have been living on for centuries.

And they sure as hell do not have the right to attack ships in international waters and slaughter the people on those ships.

 

[beorhthelm]

You may be right with 90% but were you MUST be wrong is that there were Israeli soldiers expectşing to fire live ammunition in the middle of the night with scared and agressive protesters..... anywhere in the wolrd this would be met with condemnation... have we forgotten Menzies so easily? And THAT is the point here.

thats your point? that naval soldiers shouldnt use live ammunition in a boarding mission? do you expect them to go on board with only harsh language? what bollocks, of course they use live ammo, just as any boarding party would and most police forces do for any sort of incident. i have no idea what Menzies has to do with this.

What about blockading the port for example?

well... that *is* a blockade, thats how they are operated. or do you expect a flotilla of barges stung across the harbour?

Israel don't give a shit about the UN. Fact.

the only known truth so far

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

thats your point? that naval soldiers shouldnt use live ammunition in a boarding mission? do you expect them to go on board with only harsh language? what bollocks, of course they use live ammo, just as any boarding party would and most police forces do for any sort of incident. i have no idea what Menzies has to do with this.

SOURCE FOR THIS?



well... that *is* a blockade, thats how they are operated. or do you expect a flotilla of barges stung across the harbour?

NO... again your source?.... a blockade is not flying in by helicopter in the middle of the night and jumping on to boats... a blockade is an official blocking of entry routes into the port.... that is not the case here... chek your facts



the only known truth so far

On the last point we agree

 

[Buzzer]

You may be right with 90% but were you MUST be wrong is that there were Israeli soldiers expectşing to fire live ammunition in the middle of the night with scared and agressive protesters..... anywhere in the wolrd this would be met with condemnation... have we forgotten Menzies so easily? And THAT is the point here.

I've been to Palestine and Israel and there are idiots on both sides. But you expect a government with its huge multitude of resources to be able to effect a peaceful solution ...not just 'If wolrd famous novelist henning menkell carries a gun, shoot him!' I expect that from Hamas... not a civilsed government. What about blockading the port for example?

No. We are too trusting of anything that comes from 'official' sources. So was Neville Chamberlain.

You're rambling.

 

[Steve Foster]

Even before the British Mandate, it was the Jews who were known as the Palestinians, not the Arabs. It wasn't until 1964 that the Arabs claimed the name for a non-existent people. Unfortunately, the world chooses ignorance over facts, and so this non-existent people have suddenly became a people, complete with a non-existent history.

 

[Buzzer]

Even before the British Mandate, it was the Jews who were known as the Palestinians, not the Arabs. It wasn't until 1964 that the Arabs claimed the name for a non-existent people. Unfortunately, the world chooses ignorance over facts, and so this non-existent people have suddenly became a people, complete with a non-existent history.

And you're just mental.

 

[cannedheat]

I see the protesters are out in London could they not get a flight to Israel.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

You're rambling.

Yes... sorry

 

[readingstockport]

Even before the British Mandate, it was the Jews who were known as the Palestinians, not the Arabs. It wasn't until 1964 that the Arabs claimed the name for a non-existent people. Unfortunately, the world chooses ignorance over facts, and so this non-existent people have suddenly became a people, complete with a non-existent history.

Even if a word of that were true it still does not excuse anything that the israeli's do to the people who have lived and farmed in palestine for centuries in the name of some fantasy holy book and it certainly does not excuse what was essentially an act of war in international waters.

 

[bhaexpress]

f*** me you can be a patronising twat sometimes. I would have thought those condemning this will have made themselves au fait with the facts.

Such a remark makes you look like the anal discharge you obviously are. All I have said is that I want to hear both sides whereas a complete moron like you wants to follow the herd (or in your case, the turd). I know that family members of my family were murdered in the holocast so strangely I would like to hear both sides. I can see why the Nazis existed when ignorant morons like you exist. Get back to your Sun for you your facts you ****.

 

[Buzzer]

Such a remark makes you look like the anal discharge you obviously are. All I have said is that I want to hear both sides whereas a complete moron like you wants to follow the herd (or in your case, the turd). I know that family members of my family were murdered in the holocast so strangely I would like to hear both sides. I can see why the Nazis existed when ignorant morons like you exist. Get back to your Sun for you your facts you ****.

PMT, dearie?