Paul Barber - ID checks of fans at away games?

[CT1]

Doing this might stop a small number of fans cheating the system. However it guarantees:

1) Insulting fans who have traveled far and wide when we were in the bottom half of the football league, who have never cheated the loyalty points system and/or who have put up with the comercialisation of the club in the recent years. Sorry Mr. Barber, but if we fans never fought to save the club then you wouldn't be sitting in the pretty paid job that you are now. Show these fans the trust and respect they deserve by sparing them the indignity of having to prove themselves to be genuinely loyal to the club.

2) Empty seats in away ends because fans who end up not being able to attend can not pass on their tickets. Its embarrassing enough when the stadium announcer at home games tells us there are over 30000 at a game when its more like 26/27000. How awful will it be when we sell out allocations next year but there are a 1000 empty seats. It makes a mockery of our support.

Huge mistake by the club.

 

[Ernest]

You buy a season ticket it is for your use, if sometimes you can't make it then the club turn a blind eye to letting a friend or relative use it. Now if you can't go or don't want to go anymore for whatever reason then the club will not allow you to give it to someone else to have on a permanent basis, this was explained quite clearly at the season ticket roadshow when the Aussie guy was pimping the season ticket licences, if you want the season ticket to remain in your family or whatever then you needed to have a season ticket licence.

It's quite clear that with a season ticket waiting list and considerable demand next season if/when we go up then they want season tickets to be for the use of the person who originally bought it and whose name it is in.

 

[Saint Lennard]

So what if I give a ticket by a board member or player?! Or do such acts no longer occur?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So what if I give a ticket by a board member or player?! Or do such acts no longer occur?

Then it would be a comp. It would have "Complimentary" printed on it, and it wouldn't be in a particular name.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Really needs splitting into two separate debates IMHO. The Away Fans ID debate and the ST/(virgule) Waiting List debate. Probably a bit too late for that now tho eh?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Afternoon Troll. I knew some knobhead would say that. Congratulations. You win my contempt. But no, not always. But yes, quite often. Which one suits your rose-tints better?

Which part of always, did you have difficulty understanding?

I note you said no, not always, so which part of my post was trolling? Did it suit your argument to accuse me of being a troll, in the same way, you have abused others in this thread who didn't agree with your point of view.

Troll - One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Which part of my post was deliberately provocative with the intention of causing maximum disruption or argument?

I would suggest none of it, just an observation, but you love to insult people.

 

[Bozza]

Thanks for the patronising reply! And perhaps it could equally be argued that yours typifies the sleepwalking towards, possibly a bit too close to the club response that many might expect? Regardless, their wouldnt be any need to get 'outraged' if the proverbial sledgehammer hadn't been wielded.

There's only a sledgehammer if you are looking for one. I think we'll be waiting for quite some time before anyone on here reports back having been asked to prove their identity at a ground. If and when it does happen they'll probably then say they quickly flashed the debit card they had in their wallet and were on their way within 30 seconds.

I have no idea what you are trying to say about me. I'm a fan just like you. I agree with some stuff the club does and disagrees about other stuff. In both cases I'll say how I feel.

PS its absolutely laughable that you believe there aren't officials at Amex or Other grounds who might not, lets just say, be best suited to doorkeeping duties. I've seen hundreds of examples and heard and read instances of even more on NSC alone.

Where did I say anything about people employed at grounds in a capacity beyond the very specific one we are talking about? I didn't. As a fan of 40 or so years, having been to many hundreds of games all over the country I'd seen some very poor stewarding by those I wouldn't deem suitable for the job. But that's got nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

If spot checks are being undertaken on Albion fans, those people will need to have access to, and an understanding of, Albion's ticket sale systems. That's not a job for rent-a-bouncer.

 

[amexer]

You buy a season ticket it is for your use, if sometimes you can't make it then the club turn a blind eye to letting a friend or relative use it. Now if you can't go or don't want to go anymore for whatever reason then the club will not allow you to give it to someone else to have on a permanent basis, this was explained quite clearly at the season ticket roadshow when the Aussie guy was pimping the season ticket licences, if you want the season ticket to remain in your family or whatever then you needed to have a season ticket licence.

It's quite clear that with a season ticket waiting list and considerable demand next season if/when we go up then they want season tickets to be for the use of the person who originally bought it and whose name it is in.

Agree they want ticket to be used by season ticket holder. However when friend can no longer attend surely not unreasonable for me to want ticket to be sold to another friend or family. Otherwise for first time I have to go to football on my own which does not appeal. Unless they change I can see me asking friend to renew and I pass ticket over to another friend which seems stupid when I am happy to tell them who will be attending

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You buy a season ticket it is for your use, if sometimes you can't make it then the club turn a blind eye to letting a friend or relative use it. Now if you can't go or don't want to go anymore for whatever reason then the club will not allow you to give it to someone else to have on a permanent basis, this was explained quite clearly at the season ticket roadshow when the Aussie guy was pimping the season ticket licences, if you want the season ticket to remain in your family or whatever then you needed to have a season ticket licence.

It's quite clear that with a season ticket waiting list and considerable demand next season if/when we go up then they want season tickets to be for the use of the person who originally bought it and whose name it is in.

Think I read somewhere on this thread that the club actually charges people to go on the ST waiting list. If that's the case, would go a long way towards explaining they've decided to start hassling existing STHs.

 

[rippleman]

Just to focus on one aspect of Barber's latest bout of idiocy.

I have a ST. Sometimes I can't go. I have given my ticket to a junior in the full knowledge that if he is naughty, my ST will be taken away. That junior has now developed such a passion that he has purchased his own ST.

So Barber would rather my seat remain empty, and lose on potential revenues from programme, drinks, food etc than let me hand over my ticket to a junior who has now bought his own ST thereby generating additional revenues for the club?

I used to think Barber was a businessman who didn't understand football fans. Now I'm beginning to wonder if he understands business! Alienating your "customers" as Barber calls us, by introducing such ridiculously OTT "sledgehammer to crack a nut" measures, is really not a good idea (as this thread demonstrates).

 

[bhanutz]

Just to focus on one aspect of Barber's latest bout of idiocy.

I have a ST. Sometimes I can't go. I have given my ticket to a junior in the full knowledge that if he is naughty, my ST will be taken away. That junior has now developed such a passion that he has purchased his own ST.

So Barber would rather my seat remain empty, and lose on potential revenues from programme, drinks, food etc than let me hand over my ticket to a junior who has now bought his own ST thereby generating additional revenues for the club?

I used to think Barber was a businessman who didn't understand football fans. Now I'm beginning to wonder if he understands business! Alienating your "customers" as Barber calls us, by introducing such ridiculously OTT "sledgehammer to crack a nut" measures, is really not a good idea (as this thread demonstrates).

Maybe I have got this wrong.....

All he is saying is that you can't keep your season ticket and pass it onto a friend or family member if you decide you no longer want to go!

I kind of get that approach, he isn't saying if you can't make a game, you can't pass it onto a friend or family member for that one or two games you can't make. Therefore that doesn't really change your situation?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Just to focus on one aspect of Barber's latest bout of idiocy.

I have a ST. Sometimes I can't go. I have given my ticket to a junior in the full knowledge that if he is naughty, my ST will be taken away. That junior has now developed such a passion that he has purchased his own ST.

So Barber would rather my seat remain empty, and lose on potential revenues from programme, drinks, food etc than let me hand over my ticket to a junior who has now bought his own ST thereby generating additional revenues for the club?

I've posted along very similar lines in the past. I go to visit friends in Oz every year or two. I'm gone for 4-6 weeks, normally during the football season. I always sort of assumed I was being a good fan, leaving my ST with the very good friends who I sit next to at matches and who I would trust with my life. They're really really decent people. I leave them complete discretion to farm out my ST for free to anyone they see fit. My seat gets filled, somebody gets to see a game who maybe otherwise wouldn't. Maybe they buy a programme and/or something in the club shop and/or something to eat and/or drink. Thought I was doing everybody, including the club, a small favour. Everybody wins! Or so I thought. Turns out I'm a bad fan

 

[Ernest]

Think I read somewhere on this thread that the club actually charges people to go on the ST waiting list. If that's the case, would go a long way towards explaining they've decided to start hassling existing STHs.

Course they charge, that is the whole point of this

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Course they charge, that is the whole point of this

I honestly never knew that. How much can it possibly BE to join the ST waiting list?

 

[Ernest]

I honestly never knew that. How much can it possibly BE to join the ST waiting list?

Bronze membership = £22

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I've posted along very similar lines in the past. I go to visit friends in Oz every year or two. I'm gone for 4-6 weeks, normally during the football season. I always sort of assumed I was being a good fan, leaving my ST with the very good friends who I sit next to at matches and who I would trust with my life. They're really really decent people. I leave them complete discretion to farm out my ST for free to anyone they see fit. My seat gets filled, somebody gets to see a game who maybe otherwise wouldn't. Maybe they buy a programme and/or something in the club shop and/or something to eat and/or drink. Thought I was doing everybody, including the club, a small favour. Everybody wins! Or so I thought. Turns out I'm a bad fan

No, the club aren't saying that. It's ok for the occasional game, and the people using that ticket are known so not likely to cause problems.

From what I understand, it's if someone wasn't able to go for a season (say away for a gap year) and that season ticket was passed to an uncle or cousin for that year, then it's unfair on those on the waiting list.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Bronze membership = £22

Just to join the waiting list? Sake!

No wonder the club's hassling existing STHs. Gotta give the JCVLs SOMETHING for their £22 I suppose

 

[rippleman]

When it comes to the club that I have loved and supported for 45 years, my heart tends to rule my head when a JCL (and that is what Barber is) issues such ridiculous diktats. that upset so many of my fellow fans.

I therefore thank El Pres for his calm and level-headed summary and rebuttal of Barber's statement.

El Pres's post has now slipped down the pages a fair way but I make no apology for quoting it here, in full.

I've read PB's epistle and this does raise a number of points. Some of which are within the remit of the club and others not.

1: It reinforces that football fans are viewed by the authorities as second class citizens. You can buy and transfer tickets for other sporting events, and secondary markets exist for these, often organised by large ticketing organisations, so why is football different?

The answer is that this (and previous) governments still have the paternalistic view that football fans are all potential hooligans and need monitoring to a greater degree than those of other sports.

2: There's an assumption (which is fair) that we have an excellent chance of promotion next season and there will be a scramble for tickets for certain fixtures, we all know what they are. I strongly suspect that first dibs on those tickets will go to sponsors and commercial partners of the club, and then to those who are earn loyalty points.

I'm not saying it's wrong, we are realistic enough to know sponsors pay money and expect privileges as a result. You only have to look at how FIFA and UEFA hand out a large proportion of tickets to commercial chums for the WC and Euro competitions to see that money talks, and those who were at Rotherham last night don't take priority over American Express et al.

3: By the very nature of being able to buy a ticket in the first place a fan has earned the right to make that purchase. If he or she cannot make the match for whatever reason which may have been at short notice they previously could have sold/given it to a friend. Now that option goes with the threat of losing loyalty points. As a consequence there's a danger of no one using the ticket, which is of benefit to none of the parties.

4: Reading between the lines there is profiling of fans that will be asked to provide ID. It's surely going to be impossible or ridiculously time consuming to check (say) 6,000 fan ID's at the Emirates should we be playing Arsenal next season. Therefore the clipboard kids will focus on 16-25 year old males who may have had a sherbert or two, and picked up a ticket from a mate (who, remember, has earned the right to buy the ticket in the first place through having sufficient points).

5: The Friends & Family scheme allows groups to buy tickets together and sit next to each other. How will such groups be policed by the Clipboard kids as tickets are likely to be handed out within such a group randomly, and the fans won't necessarily arrive simultaneously at the ground.

6: It discriminates against parents with kids who might be desperate to visit a 'big' ground. Personally I don't think I'm a criminal if I decide to buy a ticket for Old Trafford (I've seen us play in the league there before anyway) and then forego attending the match because a friend who himself does have enough points would love his son/daughter to go with him. The rules being introduced would however criminalise me, and it's that tone, from the wording of the rules, that is so disappointing.

We are all fans, we appreciate what TB has done, we put up with a lot of inconvenience for our love of the Albion, and IMO it's an unnecessary approach to take for a problem that doesn't really exist, as well as an invasion of personal and civil liberties.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

This is ridiculous.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Da Man Clay]

Nobody will force you to show ID as they have no legal right to demand it. However, if you don't, then you can't go in the ground. People show IDs at pubs and other venues all the time. It is a fact of life. Talk of erosion of civil liberties is massively excessive. We live in a society where cameras watch us most of the time in public and people are worried about having to show their driving licence to someone at a football match. Is that really where your civil liberties are being eroded.

Showing ID at a venue that requires you to have obtained an appropriate age is an entirely different prospect though. In those circumstances it's clearly a justifiable request. This isn't. The talk of CCTV cameras is just white noise - it doesn't make this latest diktat a reasonable course of action. I'm just somewhat fed up of football fans being treated as suspects regardless of the circumstances. I think it's particularly sad that people are so happy to just accept the club stance on this one. I'm not one to complain but this policy is a step too far for me.