Paul Barber - ID checks of fans at away games?

[fatshats]

Apologies if someone has already made this point....

When you buy a ticket on seagullstickets.com you accept the terms and conditions. There are no terms and conditions on the site for away ticket purchases, so you are subject to those printed on the ticket itself, which will make no mention of name, and the issue of transferability only prevents you from selling it on for more than you bought it for.

I bought a ticket for Leeds. I can't go. I give it to my brother. I have not breached the terms and conditions of purchase, nor has he. He has a valid match ticket in his possession and can't be refused entry. End of story. I don't see how the club think they can enforce a rule that doesn't actually exist. It seems about as well thought through as the Trump travel ban!

 

[portlock seagull]

But WHY would you travel 500 miles, then refuse, and ruin your own day and waste a shitload of money, just to make your point? Wouldn't most normal people just flash a card from their wallet, smile at the chap, and head to the bar?

misses point many others have made and if I have to point out too, you clearly aren't and never will 'get it'...

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Barber has got this all wrong AGAIN. He drops these clangers and then has to produce reams and reams of weasel words to somehow make it seem sensible.

A relatively closed shop is precisely what protects most the truly loyal Albion fans. This loyalty exists and persists mainly within families and friendship groups and that is a good thing.

Barber's real agenda is obviously about maximising income from "new" types of fans attracted by the Premier League and willing/able to spend more money. He obviously can't be honest about that publicly. Where he goes wrong is that he should just get on with it quietly - we as fans have no choice but to comply if we want to carry on going to matches.

 

[Whitechapel]

Is that the distance from The Amex or the residence?

From The Amex, evens the field up slightly for people who have moved away from Brighton for person reasons.

It'll still take a lot of games to reach the same level as a ST holder so you'd still have to be committed.

Let's say you racked up 600 points last season. You'd start the season on 300 this year as points are halved. As an example let's say you had moved to Leeds, you're still looking at having to go Leeds (on TV), Barnsley, Huddersfield (Thursday/TV), Wednesday, Rotherham (Tuesday), Birmingham (TV) Preston & Neecastle (TV) just to accumulate the same amount of points as a ST holder who's done Fulham & Brentford.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

misses point many others have made and if I have to point out too, you clearly aren't and never will 'get it'...

Its missing nothing whatsoever. I understand the arguments against, and appreciate that people are aggrieved by the assumption of wrong-doing. But all that aside, if you take a day off work, travel 500 miles, spend £100 quid on tickets, food and rail fares, then throw it all away because you refuse to show a polite kid with an Albion jacket and a clipboard, the name on your cash card, then you're an absolute bell-end.

 

[Is it PotG?]

From The Amex, evens the field up slightly for people who have moved away from Brighton for person reasons.

It'll still take a lot of games to reach the same level as a ST holder so you'd still have to be committed.

Let's say you racked up 600 points last season. You'd start the season on 300 this year as points are halved. As an example let's say you had moved to Leeds, you're still looking at having to go Leeds (on TV), Barnsley, Huddersfield (Thursday/TV), Wednesday, Rotherham (Tuesday), Birmingham (TV) Preston & Newcastle (TV) just to accumulate the same amount of points as a ST holder who's done Fulham & Brentford.

So Northern based fans would accumulate points much quicker than a Southern based one, overall? Who would work all this out?

 

[chaileyjem]

True at the moment, but that's changing as well. For the next GE, you'll have to show photo ID (as you do already in NI)

Its a pilot scheme being trialled at the local elections in 2018. There are no plans to introduce for next GE. Yet.

 

[portlock seagull]

It's not allowed. I have a similar conundrum, my eldest is now working and can't get to many games, he's been to 3 so far this season. I rang the club back in September and asked if I could put the ticket in my Dad's name and was told No. I then asked if I could upgrade the ticket for the whole season for my Dad and after initially saying yes, the person I was speaking to realised that as my dad is an OAP & my son U21 the cost was the same and therefore no upgrade was necessary. They actually said 'your Dad can use your son's ticket all season, the lights at the turnstiles are the same for OAP's & U21's and the stewards know they are the same cost'. My dad has indeed used it all season and never had a problem. But the club statement also says that 'reallocating a ST' to a member of family or friend is not allowed. So now my dad is running the risk that he maybe challenged on match day, probably unlikely but a risk nonetheless. I also have a 5 year old that I'd like to start taking so ideally I'd put the ST in his name but no chance of that. We are in a row of 8 friends, I'm not renewing my U21's ST and his seat is 3rd in the row of 8. So the club are banking on selling that 1 ST to someone in the waiting list, lucky them!

Criminal behaviour. Hope you get caught. We don't need your type following this club. PS can you donate to the forty notes fund, we seem to be having a cashflow crisis...

 

[portlock seagull]

Its missing nothing whatsoever. I understand the arguments against, and appreciate that people are aggrieved by the assumption of wrong-doing. But all that aside, if you take a day off work, travel 500 miles, spend £100 quid on tickets, food and rail fares, then throw it all away because you refuse to show a polite kid with an Albion jacket and a clipboard, the name on your cash card, then you're an absolute bell-end.

Or I and many others don't share your views on civil liberties but thanks, you rage away with your insults. I would genuienly love for you to lose your wallet at an away game to test this theory. And as if you've never taken or passed a ticket on at face value because of a last minute event...On your bike, son.

 

[Birdie Boy]

It's not allowed. I have a similar conundrum, my eldest is now working and can't get to many games, he's been to 3 so far this season. I rang the club back in September and asked if I could put the ticket in my Dad's name and was told No. I then asked if I could upgrade the ticket for the whole season for my Dad and after initially saying yes, the person I was speaking to realised that as my dad is an OAP & my son U21 the cost was the same and therefore no upgrade was necessary. They actually said 'your Dad can use your son's ticket all season, the lights at the turnstiles are the same for OAP's & U21's and the stewards know they are the same cost'. My dad has indeed used it all season and never had a problem. But the club statement also says that 'reallocating a ST' to a member of family or friend is not allowed. So now my dad is running the risk that he maybe challenged on match day, probably unlikely but a risk nonetheless. I also have a 5 year old that I'd like to start taking so ideally I'd put the ST in his name but no chance of that. We are in a row of 8 friends, I'm not renewing my U21's ST and his seat is 3rd in the row of 8. So the club are banking on selling that 1 ST to someone in the waiting list, lucky them!

This is slightly different, I suspect, as you have already paid for this season and there is not that many left to go, so you can run down your ticket. If you were to renew it next season and your Dad used it every game, then you would run the small risk of being caught. At some point though, your son will be over 21 and so the cost and the lights will change so your Dad will then not get in.

It is a shame that you cannot pass it on to your dad, friend etc. but that is the issue with being successful and having waiting lists. There are STH's at Liverpool, United, etc. that have been going for decades and the ticket is not in their name. Brighton want to avoid this and I understand why.

For what it is worth, I buggered up big time earlier in the season. My daughter has been a STH holder since the Amex and she gave it up last season due to boyfriend/work commitments, these commitments then changed and she asked me to get her a half season ticket before Christmas and I forgot!!! As far as I am aware, she has no chance of getting one for next season whether we go up or not, which has really pee'd me off as I love going to the football with her. But it was my fault and hers for not reminding me so I will have to live with it.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Criminal behaviour. Hope you get caught. We don't need your type following this club. PS can you donate to the forty notes fund, we seem to be having a cashflow crisis...

Not only criminal but immoral. That seat would obviously be much better allocated to a JCL on the waiting list who wants to attend Premier League matches.

 

[Bozza]

Apologies if someone has already made this point....

When you buy a ticket on seagullstickets.com you accept the terms and conditions. There are no terms and conditions on the site for away ticket purchases, so you are subject to those printed on the ticket itself, which will make no mention of name, and the issue of transferability only prevents you from selling it on for more than you bought it for.

The law does not permit anyone to sell or give a football ticket to anyone else at all, as detailed in various bits of:

The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006
The Ticket Touting (Designation of Football Matches) Order 2007

Now, the spirit of the law is such that giving a ticket to a family member or friend is very unlikely to get you into any kind of grief, but you will still have broken the law.

 

[Whitechapel]

So Northern based fans would accumulate points much quicker than a Southern based one, overall? Who would work all this out?

There are four options;

Neither fan has a season ticket; Then yes, the northern fan would accumulate more points. However you are then looking at why the Southern fan doesn't have a season ticket. Is he on the waiting list? Is it a job not letting him commit? Either way his odds of getting tickets wouldn't change. He'll get them for the unpopular games if he wants them and not for the big games.

Southern fan has a ST, Northern doesn't; The Southern fan has a 1000 point head start over the Northern fan. Any home cup games or a minimal amount of away games will keep him in a position where he has more points than the Northern fan. The only wall he'll miss out is in extreme cases.

Northern fan has a ST, Southern doesn't; Don't think this one takes much explaining.

Both have ST; It comes down to who does the most away games. If the Northern fan is travelling the length of the country every other week and hoovering up all the local games too then he deserves to have first dibs IMO. People who go to every game will still get tickets first.


I'm sure there's a flaw in the system somewhere but I think it's a lot fairer than the current way of doing it.

 

[Bozza]

Ow I can. The gorillas who make up the vast majority of stewards would love nothing better than a full on 'code 1' document / process invalid chance to stop a fan (aka scum, hooligan, animal) and an away one at that being refused entry. They'd be positively salivating at the thought. Remember, you're a piece of shit to be shovelled onto its toilet seat and any 'backchat' (disagreement) will and does end badly for fans. Every time. No matter how polite or aggrieved you are. Ow, and we'll judge jury and execute on the spot too with no right of appeal or proof necessary. And for good measure we'll take 6hundred quid off you for the previlage. But we are doing this out of true concern for you our loyal customers...honest...

Your post typifies the "Outraged of Sussex" response to this: assuming the worst. In fact, almost appearing to wish for the worst in order that they can turn up their outrage dial even further.

You're making a massive assumption that the club would be looking to employ some meatheads to undertake spot checks, should they ever happen.

My assumption is that it will be Albion ticket office staff working a bit of overtime.

 

[sparkie]

Its missing nothing whatsoever. I understand the arguments against, and appreciate that people are aggrieved by the assumption of wrong-doing. But all that aside, if you take a day off work, travel 500 miles, spend £100 quid on tickets, food and rail fares, then throw it all away because you refuse to show a polite kid with an Albion jacket and a clipboard, the name on your cash card, then you're an absolute bell-end.

Polite kid, or bald headed orc ?

[emoji38]ol:

 

[Peter Grummit]

Apologies if someone has already made this point....

When you buy a ticket on seagullstickets.com you accept the terms and conditions. There are no terms and conditions on the site for away ticket purchases, so you are subject to those printed on the ticket itself, which will make no mention of name, and the issue of transferability only prevents you from selling it on for more than you bought it for.

I bought a ticket for Leeds. I can't go. I give it to my brother. I have not breached the terms and conditions of purchase, nor has he. He has a valid match ticket in his possession and can't be refused entry. End of story. I don't see how the club think they can enforce a rule that doesn't actually exist. It seems about as well thought through as the Trump travel ban!

I have a ticket in my name for QPR (so this doesn't directly affect me), but I thought I would follow through on the T+Cs for this fixture. You are quite correct, there are no T+Cs for Away Tickets on the Albion website and on the link that you have to tick you have read. However, the paper tickets refer to Ground Regulations which, after some clicking around, I finall found on QPR's website. They include the following:

21) Tickets are not transferable and may not be offered for sale without the prior written permission of the Club. Any tickets that are transferred are transferred subject to these Ground Regulations. Any tickets offered for sale may be confiscated by any steward, officer of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to refuse admission to or eject from the Ground, any person who has transferred his/her ticket in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions (and/or the holder of any ticket that has been transferred in contravention of the relevant ticket terms and conditions.) Tickets remain the property of the Club at all times.
Read more at http://www.qpr.co.uk/club/loftusrd/ground-regulations/index.aspx#wkEADJIHaKsoW69H.99

So I guess this is the basis on which Barber would seek to do his 'spot checks'. HOWEVER, because it's not possible to see the paper ticket conditions until AFTER you have made the purchase, I am not sure this would stand up legally.

Personally, I think Barber is being heavy handed here. If somebody has accumulated enough points to qualify, I don't think it's unreasonable that they could choose to nominate someone else to use that ticket. The only outcome here is to make it more difficult for some loyal Albion fans (for example those who live up north) to follow the team. Witness the vocal support at Rotherham - this was not a 'points required' fixture of course but there will be fixtures - especially if we are promoted where this will apply.

PG

 

[Bozza]

So I guess this is the basis on which Barber would seek to do his 'spot checks'. HOWEVER, because it's not possible to see the paper ticket conditions until AFTER you have made the purchase, I am not sure this would stand up legally.

It's illegal to sell or give a ticket for a football match to anyone else. That will stand up legally.

 

[Notters]

Are you really that bloody precious?

If I walked into a ground and someone asked to see my ticket and then looked at an iPad or something and said "This ticket was sold to a Mr D McKay - would you have anything on you today that verifies that is you?" I'd get out a debit or credit card, they'd take a quick glance and I'd be on my way.

There's really no need to be an arse about it, should it happen to you, which it almost certainly won't.

The alternative is probably rocking up at the Amex for the next game and my season ticket being blocked. All because I got a bit flouncy at an away game.

Knock yourself out if you want comrade.

You're presumably saying, therefore, that you've a) Never given a spare ticket to someone at the last minute because you couldn't go, or b) taken advantage of someone else in the same situation, as if you had objecting to showing ID would surely be not only principled but logical, not precious at all.

 

[amexer]

There must be thousands going to Amex with friends and family. If the club are insisting that everytime a friend or family member cannot renew a season ticket it has to be given to waiting list I am sorry but it will drive people away. Are people after watching game and drinking with friend before game for years going to be content to attend game on there own. I also know groups of 6 to 8 friends that sit together. If one stops going another friend buys the ticket. Is it really going to work that a stranger sits in the middle. Some common sense please. Assume they only have a waiting list in case we go up. If we dont this list will be gone as assume those on it only interested in Premier division.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Or I and many others don't share your views on civil liberties but thanks, you rage away with your insults. I would genuienly love for you to lose your wallet at an away game to test this theory. And as if you've never taken or passed a ticket on at face value because of a last minute event...On your bike, son.

Exactly that - I wouldn't be showing ID on the basis that they have no lawful power to demand it. Nothing to do with anything else. Erosion of civil liberty on the basis that some people might pass tickets onto others is ridiculous. If a police officer with the appropriate powers wants to come and ask me then fine. Someone carrying a clipboard from the club has no chance.