Paul Barber - ID checks of fans at away games?

[El Presidente]

How about the case where Loyalty Points are in operation, I cannot go but buy a ticket, then flog it to someone (at face value!) who might not be there 'lawfully'?

You shouldn't do it, no one is condoning or encouraging such behaviour. If someone knowingly proivides a ticket for another individual who is subject to a banning order then throw the book at them.

 

[El Presidente]

I've received an email from Paul Barber, (I don't know if other fans have received similar) and he has kindly agreed for it to be shown in the public domain, so here it is in full.

My response to the supporter concerned is copied, for your information, below. Please feel free to post this if you wish (if indeed it hasn't been posted already!):

- we do not view our fans as "second class citizens" - and I think there's plenty of evidence in all of our dealings with our fans to show this over many, many seasons.

- the club does not write the legislation (or league regulations) concerning the sale and onward transfer of tickets to football matches; we must however comply with it.

- like all other football clubs (and other professional sporting organisations or event owners), our commercial partners do receive an allocation of tickets, which they pay for.

- unfortunately, it doesn't follow, neither is it logical, that because someone has earned the right to buy an away match ticket, they have a subsequent right to pass it on.

- the vast majority football clubs (and other event owners) do not offer refunds for matches (or events) when fans are unable to attend. We are similar, home and away.

- I can't speak for other event owners but in football, with fixtures coming thick and fast, it would potentially create operational chaos for any club to even attempt to do this.

- there is no attempt whatsoever to "profile" fans regarding any random or specific requests to show ID. This is nonsense. It is also an unfair and inflammatory statement.

- if the club has any concerns about how ANY supporter has secured a ticket to a match, we reserve the right to check. We've done this at the Amex for many seasons.

- by the same token, nobody suggested anywhere, that ALL fans will be checked at an away ground. If we have concerns, we reserve the right to check individuals.

- similarly, if someone gets in to trouble at a game, we will check their ticket, its origin, and their identity. Again, this is already done, for both home and away matches.

- some clubs, attempting to tackle similar issues, already require their supporters - including friends and family groups - to collect tickets for away matches in person and at a venue close to the away ground. We wish to avoid this.

- the club is not "discriminating" against anyone, least of all parents with kids - and nobody is being "criminalised". Again, these are entirely misleading and unfair statements.

- one person with required loyalty points may well be happy for forgo their right to attend a game in favour of a friend's child attending but another supporter (a father wishing to attend with a son or daughter or vice versa) with the correct loyalty points may then be denied that same opportunity.

- this is neither fair to all supporters nor the way the chairman designed the loyalty point system to operate. It further corrupts the system as the same supporter accrues loyalty points for a match they did not attend, perpetuating their future rights to away match tickets unfairly.

- the vast majority of our staff, across all areas of the club, are football fans; most of us have held (or still hold) season tickets at various clubs, across all four divisions, and have done so in many cases for many, many decades.

- contrary to some of the nonsense written
on social media, we understand fan mentality very well - we discuss it every day of our working lives - and we know that trying to make things fairer for all fans isn't easy and, occasionally, won't be popular.

- that doesn't mean we shouldn't address issues that are raised with us. Equally, personal abuse of me or anyone else at the club for trying to establish a fair and equitable process for all supporters doesn't help - and won't change anything!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I've received an email from Paul Barber, (I don't know if other fans have received similar) and he has kindly agreed for it to be shown in the public domain, so here it is in full.

.....

unfortunately, it doesn't follow, neither is it logical, that because someone has earned the right to buy an away match ticket, they have a subsequent right to pass it on.

- the vast majority football clubs (and other event owners) do not offer refunds for matches (or events) when fans are unable to attend. We are similar, home and away.

This is the bit I find interesting.

Fine, they don't give refunds. But to then not allow you to sell it on is weird and I wonder how enforceable that is?

If I buy something in a shop, I can usually get a refund.

If I can't get a refund, I'm allowed to sell it on.

If I bought it in a sale or won it in a raffle, I'm allowed to sell it at face-value

Indeed, I'm allowed to sell it any price I can get for it.

If it was the last one of a limited edition, I'm still allowed to sell it on

If the person I sell it to uses it to break the law, I won't get into trouble

...

so who's saying football fans are not second-class citizens?

 

[n1 gull]

I don't think anyone apart from Barber has received any abuse and that exclamation mark at the end of the email makes him sound like a 13 year old girl

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I've received an email from Paul Barber, (I don't know if other fans have received similar) and he has kindly agreed for it to be shown in the public domain, so here it is in full.

Reams and reams of words.

No need for any of it apart from his desire to squeeze money out of a "waiting list" and his preference for new fans and corporate style over traditional Albion fans and their customs.

They will ultimately get away with it - thanks only to Tony Bloom's money - as the Premier League is such a powerful draw for thousands of JCVLs but it doesn't make it right.

 

[drew]

I've received an email from Paul Barber, (I don't know if other fans have received similar) and he has kindly agreed for it to be shown in the public domain, so here it is in full.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gist of that is just re-iterating existing rules but that there isn't going to be wholesale or even random checks of tickets other than for fans that are causing trouble.

I presume this might have been initiated due to some problems last weekend and the idiots were found to have tickets they weren't entitled to.

 

[seagurn]

Apparently its all because Stan Flashman is on the waiting list .

 

[El Presidente]

Reams and reams of words.

No need for any of it apart from his desire to squeeze money out of a "waiting list" and his preference for new fans and corporate style over traditional Albion fans and their customs.

They will ultimately get away with it - thanks only to Tony Bloom's money - as the Premier League is such a powerful draw for thousands of JCVLs but it doesn't make it right.

I'm not here to praise or bury PB but I don't think that is his desire on this one. I suspect the club has received a number or calls/visits/emails from people who haven't got a ticket for Forest/Brentford/QPR etc along the lines of

"I've got xxxx loyalty points and I've heard that someone with more points than me has bought a ticket and given it to his mate. I'm a loyal fan and it's not fair etc etc".

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

I do rate Paul Barber as a CEO and see a lot of good he has done for the club, but can't help feel sometimes he does go OTT against problems that don't really exist.

I never thought I'd see the day that Brighton bring in measures similar to follow England away.....

I can't really be bothered to see if this has been answered but I would expect Adrian Morris and Darren Balkham probably had a big say in this..

 

[Peter Grummit]

I'm not here to praise or bury PB but I don't think that is his desire on this one. I suspect the club has received a number or calls/visits/emails from people who haven't got a ticket for Forest/Brentford/QPR etc along the lines of

"I've got xxxx loyalty points and I've heard that someone with more points than me has bought a ticket and given it to his mate. I'm a loyal fan and it's not fair etc etc".

I suspect you are correct. In that situation, it remains the case that disgruntled supporter 'Y' has X,000 supporters with more loyalty points than him/her, whoever actually uses the ticket. As Barber admits, no system is perfectly fair. I'm not convinced this is any more unfair than, for example, northern loyal fans not being able to get tickets for a game local to them (let's say Goodison next season as an hypothetical example).

I'd be genuinely interested to know how a club like Newcastle might deal with this issue. Were all the Amex tickets prioritised to STHs, when I am sure there are lots of London based non-STH Geordies who would have wished to attend? And if so, how was this enforced?

PG

 

[Husty]

And Barber has the cheek to accuse US of making inflammatory statements? Further evidence, if any were needed, that the man is a high-horsed buffoon.

 

[Caveman]

So is this just away games or are the club going to be anal over the home games too?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And Barber has the cheek to accuse US of making inflammatory statements? Further evidence, if any were needed, that the man is a high-horsed buffoon.

Normally quite like the bloke, but this does seem to be a shitstorm entirely of his own making.

 

[El Presidente]

So is this just away games or are the club going to be anal over the home games too?

I suspect that current rules will continue to apply. If they are suspicious of a fan using a ticket of a child without upgrading, for example, then likely to take action.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Normally quite like the bloke, but this does seem to be a shitstorm entirely of his own making.

Preparations for the Premier League I think in full swing when every away game is going to be a loyalty point binfest. We've really only experienced a handful of away games each season for the last 5 where loyalty points have been needed. We're likely to have 19 if (whispers quietly) we were to get promoted.

Same with the non transferring of Season Tickets. Up until recently, it was never an issue, but since they started selling memberships to actually get onto the ST waiting list, you then those that have paid to be on that list need to see a fair chance and return on that.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Preparations for the Premier League I think in full swing when every away game is going to be a loyalty point binfest. We've really only experienced a handful of away games each season for the last 5 where loyalty points have been needed. We're likely to have 19 if (whispers quietly) we were to get promoted.

Same with the non transferring of Season Tickets. Up until recently, it was never an issue, but since they started selling memberships to actually get onto the ST waiting list, you then those that have paid to be on that list need to see a fair chance and return on that.

It won't be though. I'd imagine anyone could get tickets for Hull, Burnley, Middlesbrough, Swansea, Stoke or Sunderland. Maybe Liverpool given the distance and recentish cup game. Granted Arsenal and Chelsea there will be a binfest on here but it won't be for every game as you can't do them all.

The sad thing for me is I took my 6 year old lad to Forest away on Saturday for his first game (he will get used to losing 3-0) where we managed to get a spare via Facebook. Are we really saying that's not on anymore? Or flogging a spare one here. Really?

 

[pastafarian]

There's only a sledgehammer if you are looking for one. I think we'll be waiting for quite some time before anyone on here reports back having been asked to prove their identity at a ground. If and when it does happen they'll probably then say they quickly flashed the debit card they had in their wallet and were on their way within 30 seconds.
.

I might be thinking of a scenario that doesnt happen to everyone but...........
me and chums tend to rotate whose turn it is to buy tickets for away games.There may be up to 10 of us on a good day. All these tickets arrive in one big bundle and just get handed out. The chances of all of us walking up to the turnstile at the same time are minimal ( different taxis,stay in pub extra 15 minutes,getting food,lost through drunkenness,go for a bet). Cant say ive ever noticed a list accompanying the tickets as to which ticket number or seat is assigned to which supporter (if there is i need to look harder in the future)......how would singling out one supporter for ID even be practical in this situation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've received an email from Paul Barber, (I don't know if other fans have received similar) and he has kindly agreed for it to be shown in the public domain, so here it is in ful


My response to the supporter concerned is copied, for your information, below. Please feel free to post this if you wish (if indeed it hasn't been posted already!):

- we do not view our fans as "second class citizens" - and I think there's plenty of evidence in all of our dealings with our fans to show this over many, many seasons.

- the club does not write the legislation (or league regulations) concerning the sale and onward transfer of tickets to football matches; we must however comply with it.

- like all other football clubs (and other professional sporting organisations or event owners), our commercial partners do receive an allocation of tickets, which they pay for.

- unfortunately, it doesn't follow, neither is it logical, that because someone has earned the right to buy an away match ticket, they have a subsequent right to pass it on.

- the vast majority football clubs (and other event owners) do not offer refunds for matches (or events) when fans are unable to attend. We are similar, home and away.

- I can't speak for other event owners but in football, with fixtures coming thick and fast, it would potentially create operational chaos for any club to even attempt to do this.

- there is no attempt whatsoever to "profile" fans regarding any random or specific requests to show ID. This is nonsense. It is also an unfair and inflammatory statement.

- if the club has any concerns about how ANY supporter has secured a ticket to a match, we reserve the right to check. We've done this at the Amex for many seasons.

- by the same token, nobody suggested anywhere, that ALL fans will be checked at an away ground. If we have concerns, we reserve the right to check individuals.

- similarly, if someone gets in to trouble at a game, we will check their ticket, its origin, and their identity. Again, this is already done, for both home and away matches.

- some clubs, attempting to tackle similar issues, already require their supporters - including friends and family groups - to collect tickets for away matches in person and at a venue close to the away ground. We wish to avoid this.

- the club is not "discriminating" against anyone, least of all parents with kids - and nobody is being "criminalised". Again, these are entirely misleading and unfair statements.

- one person with required loyalty points may well be happy for forgo their right to attend a game in favour of a friend's child attending but another supporter (a father wishing to attend with a son or daughter or vice versa) with the correct loyalty points may then be denied that same opportunity.

- this is neither fair to all supporters nor the way the chairman designed the loyalty point system to operate. It further corrupts the system as the same supporter accrues loyalty points for a match they did not attend, perpetuating their future rights to away match tickets unfairly.

- the vast majority of our staff, across all areas of the club, are football fans; most of us have held (or still hold) season tickets at various clubs, across all four divisions, and have done so in many cases for many, many decades.

- contrary to some of the nonsense written
on social media, we understand fan mentality very well - we discuss it every day of our working lives - and we know that trying to make things fairer for all fans isn't easy and, occasionally, won't be popular.

- that doesn't mean we shouldn't address issues that are raised with us. Equally, personal abuse of me or anyone else at the club for trying to establish a fair and equitable process for all supporters doesn't help - and won't change anything!
l.

In short don't be a **** at the football and you should be okay?

 

[Chesney Christ]

Not sure what the issue is here. QUOTE]

Perhaps refer back to one of the 429 separate examples listed elsewhere in this thread of genuine supporters who would be adversely affected by this. Happy to explain how it will also affects me (a genuine supporter) if you need yet another example.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It won't be though. I'd imagine anyone could get tickets for Hull, Burnley, Middlesbrough, Swansea, Stoke or Sunderland. Maybe Liverpool given the distance and recentish cup game. Granted Arsenal and Chelsea there will be a binfest on here but it won't be for every game as you can't do them all.

The sad thing for me is I took my 6 year old lad to Forest away on Saturday for his first game (he will get used to losing 3-0) where we managed to get a spare via Facebook. Are we really saying that's not on anymore? Or flogging a spare one here. Really?

Allocations are a lot smaller than cup games. Most will be 3000 or less. I reckon we'd sell out most of them. Don't forget Premier League away tickets are cheaper than Championship. Less midweek games too.