One month on: Is English football going to learn?

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The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Interesting comment from the BBC's David Bond.


How much can the Premier League be blamed for England's dismal showing at this summer's World Cup in South Africa?

On the one hand, half of England's top clubs are owned or part owned by foreign businesses or individuals. 58% of the players playing in the competition are from overseas and the demands of the club season - and here we must include the Champions League, FA Cup and Carling Cup - make it the most punishing of domestic campaigns in the world.

Yet the League would argue they cannot be held responsible for all the problems exposed by the failure of Fabio Capello's side last month. Was it their fault that England's players underperformed in an outdated system and that the Rustenburg camp seemed to be divided? Is it their fault alone that there is a lack of English talent coming through the elite system?

Today Richard Scudamore, the League's chief executive, launched a typically robust defence of his position saying that he shared the pain of England's supporters following the 4-1 defeat by Germany in the second round in Bloemfontein but that the success of the national team was not his priority.

On the face of it that is a statement of fact. But somehow it feels like an admission that nothing is really going to change following South Africa, a confirmation of that nagging doubt in the back of my mind that England's shortcomings will quickly be forgotten once the Premier League circus rolls back into town at the start of August.

That's not to say the League is not trying to do something about the development of young English players. This morning Scudamore and the League's head of youth development Ged Roddy invited journalists to their Gloucester Place headquarters to explain impressive changes to the academy system that were already in the pipeline before a ball was kicked in the World Cup.

Roddy wants to introduce a classification system for Premier League academies based on the quality of coaching, the number of coaching hours offered to youngsters as well as reforming the compensation rules which make buying English youngsters so prohibitive and looking abroad so attractive.

The League says that of the 300 players aged between 16 and 18 on the books of their academies, 245 are English - a sign that the pool of talent which Capello criticised in the run-up to this World Cup could be getting deeper.

And from this season clubs will have to comply with new "home grown" player quotas which limit the number of senior (over the age of 21) foreign players to 17 in a squad of 25. The remaining eight must be "home grown".

Richard Scudamore insists the Premier League is not to blame for the England team's problems

But the well-known problem with the "home grown" definition is that foreign players can qualify under that rule if they have spent three or more years at an academy before the age of 18. Arsenal, for example, have six "home-grown" players in their quota of eight who would not qualify to play for England - although it must be said the club is unusual.

All of which begs the question; will any of this make the slightest bit of difference?

Scudamore argues strongly that in 10 years' time the effects will be self evident and that while there is no clear mission to develop a stronger England team, it is in the clubs' interests to seek out and develop what he describes as the English gem.

However, the feeling on the ground is very different. At Birmingham City - one of the League's foreign-owned clubs - there is a definite sense that the two objectives of delivering a successful national team and developing young talent for the future of a Premier League club are, to use the words of their own academy manager Terry Westley, "miles apart".

The problem essentially boils down to how many English players are getting their chance to play in the first team and develop their careers. Nothing illustrates this point better than the discrepancy between the 81% of players aged between 16 and 18 in the academy system who are English and the 42% of English players playing first=team senior football.

As I pointed out ad nauseum in the aftermath of England's World Cup failure, it's all a question of priorities. Does English football want the best League in the world or do the national team and World Cups still matter? The two shouldn't cancel each other out but recent evidence suggest the opposite is true.

Perhaps it is simply that the world has moved on and more people care more about their clubs or prefer the regular diet of top-class players offered up week in, week out every season by the Premier and Champions Leagues. And on this I would be really interested to hear your views.

The first test of the public mood comes next Wednesday when Capello's team play Hungary in a friendly at Wembley.

Three days later the Premier League is back. Only once the richest league in football returns will we really be able to judge the extent of England's World Cup hangover - or whether it will simply be big business as usual.
 




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,955
Surrey
It's a grass-roots issue. Better coaching, more of it, smaller pitches for kids, less emphasis on results at an early age, and a change in culture amongst parents on the side lines.

The leagues are just businesses ultimately.
 






ROKERITE

Active member
Dec 30, 2007
723
I'd rather England failed to win a tournament for the next century than our domestic game possibly be damaged, in some spurious attempt to improve the national side's chances.
I'd support NO reduction in the size of The Premier League, NO alteration to The League Cup, NO ending of replays in The F.A. Cup, NO restriction on foreign payers from top to bottom of the football pyramid.
Our leagues aren't bust so don't muck around with them in a doomed attempt to fix the England side.
 












Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,955
Surrey
:laugh:

Remind me how many teams are currently being pursued by HMRC for unpaid taxes and how many are in administration or have been in the past five years.
or how many clubs have ever won the Premiership
or how many clubs have won it in the past 5 seasons
or how many times a relegation spot wasn't filled by at least one promoted side
or how many league clubs have gone to the wall in the Premiership era
or the impact the Premiership's riches has had on our cup competitions

The bloke's an arse.
 


Rookie

Greetings
Feb 8, 2005
12,324
I'd rather England failed to win a tournament for the next century than our domestic game possibly be damaged, in some spurious attempt to improve the national side's chances.
I'd support NO reduction in the size of The Premier League, NO alteration to The League Cup, NO ending of replays in The F.A. Cup, NO restriction on foreign payers from top to bottom of the football pyramid.
Our leagues aren't bust so don't muck around with them in a doomed attempt to fix the England side.

One of the worst posts ever, congratulations that took some doing
 


itszamora

Go Jazz Go
Sep 21, 2003
7,282
London
It's a grass-roots issue. Better coaching, more of it, smaller pitches for kids, less emphasis on results at an early age, and a change in culture amongst parents on the side lines.

The leagues are just businesses ultimately.

I agree with this. I am also worried by the bit in the article about changing the compensation rules which make buying young English players (presumably from the lower leagues) prohibitive. That'll be another attempt to enrichen the Premier League clubs at the expense of the rest, then.
 




Lord Bamber

Legendary Chairman
Feb 23, 2009
4,366
Heaven
Arsenal, for example, have six "home-grown" players in their quota of eight who would not qualify to play for England - although it must be said the club is unusual.

Well in respect of Arsenal, he nailed this one.
 


Freddo

Well-known member
May 14, 2006
736
Clapham
I think the problem is that English players are overpriced by English clubs. £30 million for James Milner? That’s only £5 million less than David Villa! Most Premier League clubs only care about staying in the league, and so when it comes to choosing between spending, say £17 million on a Ramires or £30 million on a James Milner, who are they going to go for? Alright, so that may not be the best example but there are plenty out there and until there is a better balance then the Premier League is going to be full of foreigners playing ahead of their English counterparts.
I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing that the likes of Torres, Drogba, and Fabregas are playing in England, far from it. But ideally the league would be made up of the best foreigners with the rest English, but then again I can’t see a solution.
 


TWOCHOICEStom

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2007
10,917
Brighton
i personally dont think it'll be too long before we start seeing a fair number of internationals coming from the championship. a regular, first team goalscorer at that level in my mind is worth two of an infrequently used sub in the premiership.
 




Tesco in Disguise

Where do we go from here?
Jul 5, 2003
3,930
Wienerville
I'd rather England failed to win a tournament for the next century than our domestic game possibly be damaged, in some spurious attempt to improve the national side's chances.
I'd support NO reduction in the size of The Premier League, NO alteration to The League Cup, NO ending of replays in The F.A. Cup, NO restriction on foreign payers from top to bottom of the football pyramid.
Our leagues aren't bust so don't muck around with them in a doomed attempt to fix the England side.

you utter, utter moron.

:wozza:
 


Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,921
Brighton
I'd rather England failed to win a tournament for the next century than our domestic game possibly be damaged, in some spurious attempt to improve the national side's chances.
...
Our leagues aren't bust so don't muck around with them in a doomed attempt to fix the England side.

As easy as it is to rip apart rokerite for these sentiments, unfortunately I think it is actually what those in charge of the premier league believe and what is believed by the majority of the fans of the clubs that are in that division.
 


Silent Bob

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Dec 6, 2004
22,172
As easy as it is to rip apart rokerite for these sentiments, unfortunately I think it is actually what those in charge of the premier league believe and what is believed by the majority of the fans of the clubs that are in that division.
Not just in that division, you can see it here, there's a lot of people santimonious about the Premier League, but then as soon as we start bringing in players from abroad everyone is saying that they think we should if it's cheaper and the players are better.

The fact that young English players don't get to play first team football is a factor, but so is coaching, the Premier League can't be expected to vote against their own percieved interests but the FA have to improve coaching and football philosophy from grassroots to adademy level - there's no reason why the Premier League shouldn't help them do that, at least.
 


Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
The bit that makes me laugh is just how quickly everyone involved in the Premiership will conveniently forget the summer and revert back to telling us how various average players are World Class.

I actually heard a debate on the radio less than 2 weeks after the World Cup where they were discussing whether Ashley Cole was leaving Chelsea, and the comment made, which brought no debate was "Chelsea wouldn't want to lose Cole, as he's the best left back in the World, except possibly Evra."
 






essbee

New member
Jan 5, 2005
3,656
What will annoy me from day one of the Premier League wil be the usual 'oh isn't Rooney a fantastic player" and "oh Lampard - slots in his 23rd of the season from 40 yards" and "Gerrard - ran the midfield all 90 mins." etc etc blah-de bloody -blah

and all those ******* season ticket holders at MU, CFC and Liverpool entirely forget the world cup as incidental. Makes me puke.
 


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