One month on: Is English football going to learn?

[ROKERITE]

It's been six years since anyone other than Chelsea or Man U has won the Prem
and 15 years since anyone other than Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal has won it. In that time, five Spanish teams have won La Liga. In addition, five Spanish teams have finished in the top four in the last six years, compared to our four.

Which ever way you look at it, it's a bit more competitive than our league.

This season The Premier League is likely to be a lot more competitive than La Liga. Only Barcelona and Real Madrid have any realistic chance of the Spanish title. Arsenal, Chelsea, manu and possibly Manchester City are all in with a good chance of winning The Premier League, and Liverpool and Spurs may well not be faraway.
By the way, six teams have finished in the top four of The Premier League over the last six years.

 

[BensGrandad]

The major cause of our failure in the World Cup is down to the money paid to our Premiership players. We pay higher wages than most other leagues and as a result foreign players want to join club in the Premier League. There isnt the number of home grown players coming throughand the vacancy to accomodate those players. If we had a wage cap placed on players; more of the mediocre foreign players that adorn the clubs outside of the top 6 of the premier league would ply their trade in other Euriopean teams. There is no problem with the super stars signing and improving our game but many teams not only in lower regions of the Premiership and Championship but even in teams like us and Div 2 sign foreign players when with a little bit of effort by the scouts as good or possibly better players would be found playing in this country already.

 

[Simster]

This season The Premier League is likely to be a lot more competitive than La Liga. Only Barcelona and Real Madrid have any realistic chance of the Spanish title. Arsenal, Chelsea, manu and possibly Manchester City are all in with a good chance of winning The Premier League, and Liverpool and Spurs may well not be faraway.

Only because Chelsea and Man City are not run as a business. They are bankrolled, and it's not sustainable.

And we're not talking about Spain. But in any case, while only those two clubs might win it, it stands to reason that it probably is still the best quality league in the world. Spain are Euro and World Champs, their clubs compete in Euro finals all the time (and not just the big two).

The best league from a fan point of view is surely the Bundesliga. Biggest gates, best stadia, while not the *very* best players, they are still among the best and that league is designed to support their national team, not the other way round. The Premiership is vastly overrated and while there is a lot of money, it's all going into the pockets of average players (and greedy agents).

 

[essbee]

Simster,

Fuelled by the masses of nobodys who think that going to watch Chelsea at the Bridge is just super and yet who know j*** s*** about football.

 

[Finch]

In addition, five Spanish teams have finished in the top four in the last six years, compared to our four.

Hasn't there been 5 English teams finish in the top four in the last two years seeing as Tottenham snuck into fourth last season?

 

[Acker79]

In addition, five Spanish teams have finished in the top four in the last six years, compared to our four.

Erm. Haven't we had six finish in the top four in the last six years? (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham (09/10) and Everton (04/05))

 

[Gwylan]

By the way, six teams have finished in the top four of The Premier League over the last six years.

You're right. I meant to put top 3 (I didn't have the figures for top 4 in La Liga)

 

[BensGrandad]

The best league from a fan point of view is surely the Bundesliga. Biggest gates, best stadia, while not the *very* best players, they are still among the best and that league is designed to support their national team, not the other way round. The Premiership is vastly overrated and while there is a lot of money, it's all going into the pockets of average players (and greedy agents).

I would agree, hence Germany always do well in competitions. Most poeple in England dont care about England and I must admit I am possibly in that category; given the choice between Engalnd winning the world cup and BHA getting promotion I would go for Brighton every time.

 

[Gwylan]

Hasn't there been 5 English teams finish in the top four in the last two years seeing as Tottenham snuck into fourth last season?

Meant top three - corrected my post

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

while there is a lot of money, it's all going into the pockets of average players (and greedy agents).

This is a good point actually. Whilst billions have poured into the English game, most of it has gone straight through the clubs and out the otherside into the pockets of players and agents. Whilst the Sky money rockets, the clubs keep little of it. When you saw some of the figures that agents were being paid you can see why. Man United paid a rediculous amount to one agent for simply extending a player's contact.

 

[Simster]

Which ever way you look at it, it's a bit more competitive than our league.

Not significantly, though. You may find in 5 years time, even if all outside variables stay as they are, that England is marginally more competitive than Spain.

I'm not a fan of the Spanish league model any more than the Premiership. As with here, TV rights have warped the league, but in Spain the situation is much worse because each club is able to negotiate it's own rights. Predictably Facist Madrid and the pretentious Catalans hoover up at the expense of everybody else.

However, at least they coach their kids properly. That's why they're so good in Spain.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would agree, hence Germany always do well in competitions. Most poeple in England dont care about England and I must admit I am possibly in that category; given the choice between Engalnd winning the world cup and BHA getting promotion I would go for Brighton every time.

I personally do not give a flying f*** about England, and have not done so for a long time. I hate most of the players. technically I do not think they're that good and the tactics they use are about as unimagintive and ancient as they can get. Thankfully, more people are coming round to my way of thinking. Once the critical mass is reached maybe, just maybe, something will change.

The last two England games I went to were just utter shit. They really were.

I'll stop now, I realise I'm getting boring.

 

[shaun_rc]

My point was less about Spain than the damage the World Cup has done to the Premiership brand. I don't think the Premier League cares that much about England, but the brand itself was damaged by this summer. It proved that for all the money, it doesn't have the best players... (or maybe the most motivated players, apart from a few like Tevez).

You can see from my Avatar which league I like - terraces, beer, an atmosphere that is so much better than our libraries...

 

[The Large One]

The major cause of our failure in the World Cup is down to the money paid to our Premiership players. We pay higher wages than most other leagues and as a result foreign players want to join club in the Premier League. There isnt the number of home grown players coming throughand the vacancy to accomodate those players. If we had a wage cap placed on players; more of the mediocre foreign players that adorn the clubs outside of the top 6 of the premier league would ply their trade in other Euriopean teams. There is no problem with the super stars signing and improving our game but many teams not only in lower regions of the Premiership and Championship but even in teams like us and Div 2 sign foreign players when with a little bit of effort by the scouts as good or possibly better players would be found playing in this country already.

I don't think high wages is the major cause - it's A cause, but not the over-riding one. They pay high wages a Barcelona and Real Madrid...

I believe that the problems are far more deep-rooted and complex than the simple 'players are paid too much' issue.

For a start, having ONE organisation running English football would help, instead of three - all of whom have competing rather than consistent agendas. From there, a far-reaching, wide-ranging blueprint, made up by professionals who know what they're on about, for the advancement of English football, both nationally and internationally, would need to be drawn up, agreed and adhered to by this ONE authority.

Sadly, we've had several 'blueprints' already, most of which have been watered down or ignored, principally because they don't suit the various competing agendas - agendas driven by the short-termist, self-absorbed Gravy Train no-one seems to want to get off at present.

Whatever, we are a long way from sorting out the problems, mainly because no-one appears to have the stomach or the energy to do so.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My point was less about Spain than the damage the World Cup has done to the Premiership brand. I don't think the Premier League cares that much about England, but the brand itself was damaged by this summer. It proved that for all the money, it doesn't have the best players... (or maybe the most motivated players, apart from a few like Tevez).

You can see from my Avatar which league I like - terraces, beer, an atmosphere that is so much better than our libraries...

I see St Pauli have just signed Moritz VOLZ. He should be a LIVE-WIRE.

 

[Gwylan]

Not significantly, though. You may find in 5 years time, even if all outside variables stay as they are, that England is marginally more competitive than Spain.

I'm not a fan of the Spanish league model any more than the Premiership. As with here, TV rights have warped the league, but in Spain the situation is much worse because each club is able to negotiate it's own rights. Predictably Facist Madrid and the pretentious Catalans hoover up at the expense of everybody else.

However, at least they coach their kids properly. That's why they're so good in Spain.

I'm not saying Spain is much better. You may be right about England becoming more competitive than Spain, although personally I doubt it. There'd have a massive change in English football to break the Chelsea/Man U duopoly. Arsenal haven't got the cash, Liverpool are even poorer and City have no history. They've made a lot of noise about landing big stars (Kaka, Torres etc) but haven't bought any.

And yes, they do coach their kids properly - totally agree.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My point was less about Spain than the damage the World Cup has done to the Premiership brand. I don't think the Premier League cares that much about England, but the brand itself was damaged by this summer. It proved that for all the money, it doesn't have the best players... (or maybe the most motivated players, apart from a few like Tevez).

You can see from my Avatar which league I like - terraces, beer, an atmosphere that is so much better than our libraries...

..and also they provide the best pre-match entertainment: two lumps of wood, two huge nails, two hammers and two huge blokes. First one to bury the nail wins. Genius. I've never seen adults and kids both get so much enjoyment out of the same spectacle in my life.

 

[BigGully]

To a degree I think there are TOO MANY qualified coaches.

Let me explain .........

Too many keen, inexperienced adults that obtain a level 1 or 2 FA Qualification that then they think legitimises their own flawed view on how football should be taught to kids as young as 6 years old.

There needs to be more opportunity for unsupervised football without any input from these 'qualified coaches', where children can play unhindered from the 'barking orders' of pass, turn and shoot from the aforementioned 'qualified coaches'.

It would increase the enjoyment of children clear from the stifling exposure of these 'qualified coaches', kids would maybe start to 'hog the ball' a little bit more, practising skills that have in recent years been taken away from them.

Kids no longer deemed a failure at the age of 6, as the 'qualified coach' picks a team to win his local derby game the following Sunday !!

The outstanding players may then have developed imagination, guile and technique without hindrance from the local 'qualified coach' and offer an Academy or Centre of Excellence a player that has a greater potential then previously.

Now its the Academy systems that require far greater skilled coaches, coaches that have a real drive to develop players that have technique, understanding and imagination.

So increase the quality of coaches of course, but sometimes adults need to back off a bit, even if you are 'qualified' !!!!

 

[BensGrandad]

My problem is not with the superstars coming to play in the Premier League, which they do due to the wages etc that they will draw but with the 3rd rate foreigners coming into the league and to use as an example the players that the likes of Blackburn, Wolves, West Ham etc sign could not players of the same standard be found on our shores if the scouts got off of their arses and the agaents were made to see sense and not demand high stupid wages. This would only be brought about if the league hada a salary cap in effect that would stop 3rd rate players demanding and getting these ridiculously high wages.

Why have we signed Baz, Batepeidi and even Calderon wasnt there as good available in this country, yes there probably was but their agents asked stupid amounts of money for mediocre players, which made the signing of them less viable.