Official Running Thread

[Greg Bobkin]

The thought of still running west and feeling like that is currently my worst nightmare! I’m not sure I’d be strong enough to turn it around. All credit to you. I need to remember these stories on 15/04 in case my mind gets any ideas about starting at parkrun pace to, in my own stupid and frequently used words, ‘get ahead of the run rate’!

Something that has really helped me focus a few times when the going gets tough is counting down from 200. Takes your mind off the pain and gets you through those tough miles.

Meanwhile, something completely different, there is a parkrun t-shirt update: http://www.parkrun.com/news/2018/03/26/milestone-t-shirts-a-new-process/

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[dazzer6666]

The thought of still running west and feeling like that is currently my worst nightmare! I’m not sure I’d be strong enough to turn it around. All credit to you. I need to remember these stories on 15/04 in case my mind gets any ideas about starting at parkrun pace to, in my own stupid and frequently used words, ‘get ahead of the run rate’!

Any coach will tell you ‘banking time’ by running fast at the start virtually never works....you’ll be taxing your systems too hard to be able to cope with the full distance including by potentially messing up fuelling (by burning too much glycogen). Aiming for 30s per km faster is an enormous leap......4.30 is a 3.10 pace. I’d expect you to die on your arse somewhere between 17 & 21 miles if you start at that........

 

[Guinness Boy]

The thought of still running west and feeling like that is currently my worst nightmare! I’m not sure I’d be strong enough to turn it around. All credit to you. I need to remember these stories on 15/04 in case my mind gets any ideas about starting at parkrun pace to, in my own stupid and frequently used words, ‘get ahead of the run rate’!

Any coach will tell you ‘banking time’ by running fast at the start virtually never works....you’ll be taxing your systems too hard to be able to cope with the full distance including by potentially messing up fuelling (by burning too much glycogen). Aiming for 30s per km faster is an enormous leap......4.30 is a 3.10 pace. I’d expect you to die on your arse somewhere between 17 & 21 miles if you start at that........

Here's my Brighton 2016, though it's "gun time" as I started my phone in the pen as a back up and then my watch died half way round. The first mile was actually around 7.48 using the pace bar and miles 2 and 4 also finished me off (running with [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] when I shouldn't have been ). That's three miles WAY too fast (8.40 was my target pace) and you'll see the last 10k is the very definition of "died on backside".

I'm much slower these days but in many ways I'm more happy with this year's Brighton half because I finished strongly in to the wind (at least until I got cramp due simply to not taking on enough water in the freezing conditions - and even then my last half mile was my fastest of the race).

I'm a one-marathon novice but the only advice I could give is do not try and "bank" time.

https://www.strava.com/activities/548078423#1338569405

 

[timbha]

Any coach will tell you ‘banking time’ by running fast at the start virtually never works....you’ll be taxing your systems too hard to be able to cope with the full distance including by potentially messing up fuelling (by burning too much glycogen). Aiming for 30s per km faster is an enormous leap......4.30 is a 3.10 pace. I’d expect you to die on your arse somewhere between 17 & 21 miles if you start at that........

So true. I did a HM once and felt like I could take on the world whilst waiting in the pen (two sections ahead of where I should have been!) and set off like a hare. Chatting and joking with other runners, catching the guy in front of me and shouting words of encouragement, the first few miles were brilliant. Then I stopped passing people and people started passing me. I nearly didn’t finish.

A lesson learned ......NO........every run I do now, usually PR, I’m at the start and still think “this might be my day”. Alas it never has been and because of my school boy strategy I fear it never will

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I started my negative splits at mile three this morning. Smashed it [emoji23][emoji23]

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[Herr Tubthumper]

Any coach will tell you ‘banking time’ by running fast at the start virtually never works....you’ll be taxing your systems too hard to be able to cope with the full distance including by potentially messing up fuelling (by burning too much glycogen). Aiming for 30s per km faster is an enormous leap......4.30 is a 3.10 pace. I’d expect you to die on your arse somewhere between 17 & 21 miles if you start at that........

Totally agree with this. Ideally you’ll have figured out your final race pace via your training. Base your time on that pace and stick to it religiously through out. The banked miles over the 4 months you’ve been training, and especially the taper, will make you feel like a coiled spring wanting to shoot off the start line....it won’t work.

As an aside I once ran a half and there were around 20 millennials who all shot off the start line together and were out of sight quite quickly. I picked every one of them off at around the half way mark and they were all looking totally ****ed as I passed

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I started my negative splits at mile three this morning. Smashed it [emoji23][emoji23]

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Could you make that a bit bigger

Good work sir.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Tuesdays are hill days. So, 1 mile jog and then fast up a hill for 2 mins and jog back down again, times 12. I finished off with a light jog home. I did 8 miles in total and I find the time flies when you’re doing intervals.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Could you make that a bit bigger [emoji38]ol:

Good work sir.

Yeah, sorry about that. I have no control over it when i post from my phone [emoji23]

Cheers - I did hills too, in case you hadn't guessed!

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[Herr Tubthumper]

Yeah, sorry about that. I have no control over it when i post from my phone [emoji23]

Cheers - I did hills too, in case you hadn't guessed!

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Ha, no worries. Are you using a Runners World training plan, they always seem to have Tuesday hill work?

 

[Simgull]

That’s all I needed to know. “Pacer strolled past me” and “plod” are the only words I need to confirm what I already knew - that a fast start is a stupid idea!

I agree with you on the rest. I’ll be on track for sub-3:30 at the 20 mile mark and then anything could happen. The question is how do you replicate that feeling of being 22 miles into a competitive event? I could go out and run 22 miles tomorrow but it doesn’t feel the same at training pace. I guess you’re right about the double runs. Even if they aren’t fast, just training on tired legs must make a difference. I think I’ve left it too late to do that for Brighton, but if I struggle in the last six miles on the day that’s exactly what I’ll practice before Edinburgh.

How’s your training for the sub-3 coming along?

I would nt worry about replicating the feeling of being 22 miles. You’ve done the training, stick with your plan and the combined effect of tapering and the crowd on the day will see you through the last six miles - if not there is also the inspirational scenery along Basin Road.

Above all - DO NOT get carried away by the excitement at the start- START SLOW FINISH STRONG!!!!!

 

[Anchorman]

I would nt worry about replicating the feeling of being 22 miles. You’ve done the training, stick with your plan and the combined effect of tapering and the crowd on the day will see you through the last six miles - if not there is also the inspirational scenery along Basin Road.

Above all - DO NOT get carried away by the excitement at the start- START SLOW FINISH STRONG!!!!!

Yes, slower start stronger finish negative split is the sensible approach. Have a look back at last years results, in recent years they show everybody's sectionals i.e. 5k, 10k, half way time etc. Just have a look at the incredible amount of crash and burns, some are quite spectacular, just as likely to be really good runners too, going for times like 3:00 or 3:30. It's pretty hard evidence that going for it early does not work! I certainly agree that you should look at your training times and form an opinion on your optimal running pace and stick to it, even when you are feeling great early on (which no doubt hopefully you will be)

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Ha, no worries. Are you using a Runners World training plan, they always seem to have Tuesday hill work?

A what plan?

No, I'm kinda making it up as I go along. After 10 miles yesterday I thought I'd go for a slower plod, so went up to Truleigh Hill and back down again.

With an ironman looming I should be cutting back on the running a bit and concentrating on swimming and cycling, but as BM is just around the corner, so it's more a case of getting it over and done with. I've essentially shelved ideas of a sub-4 marathon, but you never know what might happen on the day...

 

[soistes]

As someone who (recent recovery from injury permitting) will be doing his first ever marathon on 15 April, all this wise and seasoned advice is really helpful. I think I've done the training (including a couple of 20-plus milers in the last two weeks), and I got just under 1h 44m in the Brighton half back in February. As a relative marathon novice there's a massive risk of going off far too fast. In the half I averaged 4.54 min per km, and my splits were pretty even throughout, with the first 18km or so all around 4.50, and then a slight drop off to 5.00 after the turn at Hove lagoon into the wind.
I'm planning to start at 5.20 per km on the marathon and stick to it throughout, hoping to come in at 3h 45m, but with a bit of slack if things don't work out, so that I'll hopefully make 4h.
Does that sound reasonable, oh wise ones from NSC?

 

[Curious Orange]

I'm trying not to worry too much about the marathon. I've been following the FIRST plan, and it's gotten me too a whole new level of tired so I guess it must be doing something right - though the thought of two more weeks of intervals and tempo runs is a little soul destroying...

As for the day itself, I shall do a breathing check for the first few miles - keep it at conversational, which should be fine for the slower end of my target pace (6:50 - 7:26 / mile).

 

[knocky1]

As someone who (recent recovery from injury permitting) will be doing his first ever marathon on 15 April, all this wise and seasoned advice is really helpful. I think I've done the training (including a couple of 20-plus milers in the last two weeks), and I got just under 1h 44m in the Brighton half back in February. As a relative marathon novice there's a massive risk of going off far too fast. In the half I averaged 4.54 min per km, and my splits were pretty even throughout, with the first 18km or so all around 4.50, and then a slight drop off to 5.00 after the turn at Hove lagoon into the wind.
I'm planning to start at 5.20 per km on the marathon and stick to it throughout, hoping to come in at 3h 45m, but with a bit of slack if things don't work out, so that I'll hopefully make 4h.
Does that sound reasonable, oh wise ones from NSC?

It's certainly horses for courses.
Sounds reasonable but your close to the red line. I'd aim to 5:27_5:30 for 3:50:00 finish.
Pushing for that 5-10 minutes ***** me everytime.

2:55:00 at 20 miles for me last time out...............https://www.strava.com/activities/548348161 ..............................finished in 4:07:00.

 

[dazzer6666]

As someone who (recent recovery from injury permitting) will be doing his first ever marathon on 15 April, all this wise and seasoned advice is really helpful. I think I've done the training (including a couple of 20-plus milers in the last two weeks), and I got just under 1h 44m in the Brighton half back in February. As a relative marathon novice there's a massive risk of going off far too fast. In the half I averaged 4.54 min per km, and my splits were pretty even throughout, with the first 18km or so all around 4.50, and then a slight drop off to 5.00 after the turn at Hove lagoon into the wind.
I'm planning to start at 5.20 per km on the marathon and stick to it throughout, hoping to come in at 3h 45m, but with a bit of slack if things don't work out, so that I'll hopefully make 4h.
Does that sound reasonable, oh wise ones from NSC?

Sounds spot on

 

[knocky1]

As for the day itself, I shall do a breathing check for the first few miles - keep it at conversational, which should be fine for the slower end of my target pace (6:50 - 7:26 / mile).

******* That's my 5K pace!

 

[Curious Orange]

******* That's my 5K pace!

Maybe currently... but somewhat slower than your 5k pace for when you achieved your pb I'll wager!!