O/T Orgreave.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don't think there should be a Public Enquiry.

We know Thatcher gave the police licence to do whatever it took to take down the miners and we know there were police who regarded it as a carte blanche to bash some Northerners, so what is the point of spending many months and millions of pounds - and compromising the ability of South Yorkshire Police to get on and do their job now - just to be told what we already know.

I agree with Rudd that if there had been deaths or miscarriages of justice then it would be a different story. I've seen documentaries about Orgreave and participants on both sides have said it was a cracking good tear-up. A lot of them were only doing what they were doing at the football on a Saturday anyway.

To me this about playing politics - in particular about Labour trying to be seen to care about those voters who have been deserting them for UKIP, winning back sympathy and votes from the working class whilst tainting May with the bad old days of Thatcher.

This was far from a bit of football trouble on your average Saturday afternoon, or as you put it, a "cracking good tear up." Far from it. This was an orchestrated and highly planned political operation by the state, which was at that time, vulnerable to defeat to the Miners. 95 miners were charged, some with riot, which carried very heavy sentences. Not one of those trumped up charges held up under cross examination in court. And as I’ve already said, we know those ordinary police on duty that day, no doubt a frightening experience, were told what to write up in their reports by their senior officers. In other words, they were not allowed to put down what they saw, they had to lie. Those lies, finally coming to light, 30 years later, think about that - 30 years, are most likely only the beginning of the true story of what happened, why it happened and who pulled the strings behind the operation. I’d bet that it went all the way to the very highest offices of Government. No, this is a terrible decision by Amber Rudd. We should and have a right to know what really happened.

 

[JJ McClure]

This was far from a bit of football trouble on your average Saturday afternoon, or as you put it, a "cracking good tear up." Far from it. This was an orchestrated and highly planned political operation by the state, which was at that time, vulnerable to defeat to the Miners. 95 miners were charged, some with riot, which carried very heavy sentences. Not one of those trumped up charges held up under cross examination in court. And as I’ve already said, we know those ordinary police on duty that day, no doubt a frightening experience, were told what to write up in their reports by their senior officers. In other words, they were not allowed to put down what they saw, they had to lie. Those lies, finally coming to light, 30 years later, think about that - 30 years, are most likely only the beginning of the true story of what happened, why it happened and who pulled the strings behind the operation. I’d bet that it went all the way to the very highest offices of Government. No, this is a terrible decision by Amber Rudd. We should and have a right to know what really happened.

If you and the Orgreave Truth and Justice Campaign believe you have the right to know what happened then please feel free to pay the millions of pounds that it'll cost. For an event that took place 32 years ago I'd suggest it's not in the interests of the majority of the public to spend that money.

 

[Ernest]

If you and the Orgreave Truth and Justice Campaign believe you have the right to know what happened then please feel free to pay the millions of pounds that it'll cost. For an event that took place 32 years ago I'd suggest it's not in the interests of the majority of the public to spend that money.

I'd say it is in the interests to find out exactly what the TORIES did then so to make sure they NEVER get elected again

 

[alfredmizen]

This was far from a bit of football trouble on your average Saturday afternoon, or as you put it, a "cracking good tear up." Far from it. This was an orchestrated and highly planned political operation by the state, which was at that time, vulnerable to defeat to the Miners. 95 miners were charged, some with riot, which carried very heavy sentences. Not one of those trumped up charges held up under cross examination in court. And as I’ve already said, we know those ordinary police on duty that day, no doubt a frightening experience, were told what to write up in their reports by their senior officers. In other words, they were not allowed to put down what they saw, they had to lie. Those lies, finally coming to light, 30 years later, think about that - 30 years, are most likely only the beginning of the true story of what happened, why it happened and who pulled the strings behind the operation. I’d bet that it went all the way to the very highest offices of Government. No, this is a terrible decision by Amber Rudd. We should and have a right to know what really happened.

spot on , the police were politicised and used in a way that was disgusting.

 

[Hastings gull]

This was far from a bit of football trouble on your average Saturday afternoon, or as you put it, a "cracking good tear up." Far from it. This was an orchestrated and highly planned political operation by the state, which was at that time, vulnerable to defeat to the Miners. 95 miners were charged, some with riot, which carried very heavy sentences. Not one of those trumped up charges held up under cross examination in court. And as I’ve already said, we know those ordinary police on duty that day, no doubt a frightening experience, were told what to write up in their reports by their senior officers. In other words, they were not allowed to put down what they saw, they had to lie. Those lies, finally coming to light, 30 years later, think about that - 30 years, are most likely only the beginning of the true story of what happened, why it happened and who pulled the strings behind the operation. I’d bet that it went all the way to the very highest offices of Government. No, this is a terrible decision by Amber Rudd. We should and have a right to know what really happened.

I wonder if you see the irony here -you have already decided what happened!

 

[Hastings gull]

I'd say it is in the interests to find out exactly what the TORIES did then so to make sure they NEVER get elected again

Which of course is why Amber Rudd took the decision she did -it is not about "justice" just political points scoring.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Andy Burnham is one of the most pathetic lily livered politicians I've ever come across. The only person he is interested in is himself. You can guarantee everything he says and does is with a view to furthering his own political career


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If you and the Orgreave Truth and Justice Campaign believe you have the right to know what happened then please feel free to pay the millions of pounds that it'll cost. For an event that took place 32 years ago I'd suggest it's not in the interests of the majority of the public to spend that money.

There are some things which are more important than the money. We all should all interested in finding out the truth. If that doesn't interest you, then it should.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

[/B]

I wonder if you see the irony here -you have already decided what happened!

No I haven't. I have ideas about what may have happened but I would like to know . That's why we should have an inquiry.

 

[Hastings gull]

There are some things which are more important than the money. We all should all interested in finding out the truth. If that doesn't interest you, then it should.

You want the truth? Do you really? I suspect that what you want is something that damages the Police and Government, afterall your earlier post was quite explicit as to the corruption in the Police, so you have already decided what the "truth" is . .

 

[Hastings gull]

No I haven't. I have ideas about what may have happened but I would like to know . That's why we should have an inquiry.

I suggest that you read post 85 again; they are not your ideas -you begin quite explicitly with what we know . .

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You want the truth? Do you really? I suspect that what you want is something that damages the Police and Government, afterall your earlier post was quite explicit as to the corruption in the Police, so you have already decided what the "truth" is . .

. Groan. if you has any idea about what you're talking about you would know there is evidence of police corruption. Watch the news, do some reading.

 

[Hastings gull]

. Groan. if you has any idea about what you're talking about you would know there is evidence of police corruption. Watch the news, do some reading.

Yes, I has some idea, and I has seen this. It may well be true, but that is not the issue here. The point I was raising was whether you are genuinely interested in the truth, or simply having your bias corroborated. I have seen quite a few activists regarding this on the box, as I assume you have, and I doubt very much that they want anything other than an enquiry that will confirm their version of events, afforded by the taxpayer of course. Anything else, no matter how well researched, will be branded a whitewash. I also heard on Jeremy Vine this lunchtime a retired policeman saying how he had been hit several times by half bricks in the days before riot gear was as sophisticated as it is now. Strange how your posts have only ever concentrated on the idea of corruption and not one mention of the obvious mob rule there for all to see.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yes, I has some idea, and I has seen this. It may well be true, but that is not the issue here. The point I was raising was whether you are genuinely interested in the truth, or simply having your bias corroborated. I have seen quite a few activists regarding this on the box, as I assume you have, and I doubt very much that they want anything other than an enquiry that will confirm their version of events, afforded by the taxpayer of course. Anything else, no matter how well researched, will be branded a whitewash. I also heard on Jeremy Vine this lunchtime a retired policeman saying how he had been hit several times by half bricks in the days before riot gear was as sophisticated as it is now. Strange how your posts have only ever concentrated on the idea of corruption and not one mention of the obvious mob rule there for all to see.

If you read my post it clearly says it must have been a frightening experience for the police. The Miners were no angels but we're talking about something bigger here: about police corruption, about police brutality ( why were horses used on that day but no others?) ; about a cover-up. I'd like to know more. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit in with your world view but there we are. And for the record i was no fan of Scargill. There should have been a ballot but that's another issue.
Anyway, I'm going to watch the city -Barca game now so over and out.

 

[mike79]

[MENTION=3893]mike79[/MENTION] is the Canary. Not seen him post, these last few days.

Au contraire

 

[wellquickwoody]

. if you has any idea

Please go away and learn more about the English language before entering debate with adults.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Please go away and learn more about the English language before entering debate with adults.

That's very poor. Picking up on a typo when all the rest of his post, and other posts, have been eloquently and sensibly written. Especially in the face of some really base stupidity. Maybe you should have tried coming back with an argument instead of making yourself look even more foolish than normal?

 

[Hastings gull]

That's very poor. Picking up on a typo when all the rest of his post, and other posts, have been eloquently and sensibly written. Especially in the face of some really base stupidity. Maybe you should have tried coming back with an argument instead of making yourself look even more foolish than normal?

A very pompous, arrogant post, and not the first time from you. Had you read said poster's responses, you might have seen that he is not above suggesting that folk have no idea what they are talking about, eloquently put, of course.

 

[Simster]

You want the truth? Do you really? I suspect that what you want is something that damages the Police and Government, afterall your earlier post was quite explicit as to the corruption in the Police, so you have already decided what the "truth" is . .

You are in no position to be making these presumptions of bias on others. You're one of the the most blue rinsed Tory on here.

 

[vegster]

If you read my post it clearly says it must have been a frightening experience for the police. The Miners were no angels but we're talking about something bigger here: about police corruption, about police brutality ( why were horses used on that day but no others?) ; about a cover-up. I'd like to know more. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit in with your world view but there we are. And for the record i was no fan of Scargill. There should have been a ballot but that's another issue.
Anyway, I'm going to watch the city -Barca game now so over and out.

If a member of the public had ridden a horse in to a group of policemen like that I wonder how the boys in blue would view that ? we expect better from the police, overzealous violence and then trying to fabricate evidence to gain convictions does not show them in a good light and should be investigated with the full vigour of the law.