[TV] O/T Beginning of Afghanistan War

[The Fifth Column]

Maybe there's a shortage of sticks and stones to throw at them.

Maybe you should read Rory Stewart's take in it. One of those who has been there and understood it all.

Then perhaps you wouldn't show such dreadful ignorance about the terror many Afghans feel now. Raise a glass to accident of birth.

There has never been a shortage of sticks and stones, we've armed them to the teeth for the past 20 years but as soon as the real soldiers have left they've simply thrown in the towel. I'm certainly not ignorant about the terror the Afghans feel I'm saying it is no longer our problem we've spent 20yrs and billions trying to help and fix the problem but been singularly unable to convince the Afghan population as a whole to help themselves. The problem is that there is no single Afghan identity, they are a disparate collection of tribal and ethnically diverse people many of whom have no affinity with each other and in many cases downright hostility towards each other you cannot change that and it has always been the case for millenia in that region.

What do we do in the West? Continue throwing pointless billions and lives at a problem that cannot ever be fixed and in which we are the outsider, the Infidel, and will never be welcomed? Its time the regional powers in that part of the world took a collective responsibility for their problems and left us out of it, it is not our war and never has been.

 

[Baldseagull]

Didn’t they ( the west) train and arm both an army and Air Force with all the up to date equipment?

Do we stay there forever, getting killed and bombed ?

You might think I am ignorant, but what more could the west do? It’s not just the UK and the USA that are pulling out either a lot of countries did years ago.

The west funded and trained the Taliban when Russia was occupying, and imported Saudi Wahabist Islam and ideas of Jihad. Called them the Mujahideen back then, the Cold War is what has ****ed Afghanistan, there isn't a quick solution to a problem that has been 50 years in the making.

 

[Wardy's twin]

People seem surprised that Taliban have advanced so quickly but when the US/UK first went in the Taliban were overthrown just as quick. Within their national groups allegiances are to the local war lord they also don't fight to the bitter end they just do a deal. The video at the beginning of the thread shows one particular example of this - where 500 surrendered and they were just going to be processed and then released. The Americans wanted them imprisoned or dead. Clearly some of the extremists were happy to die just to kill an American and had planned for that by smuggling in grenades in their clothes.

Should we get re-involved , IMO the answer is no especially as we were generally fighting to a completely different set of rules than the enemy with far too many rules of engagement to follow.

Unfortunately Afghanistan is a mans society and the real losers are the women who will once again be treated like sh*t especially those who have aspirations within education or a career.

 

[beorhthelm]

The west funded and trained the Taliban when Russia was occupying, and imported Saudi Wahabist Islam and ideas of Jihad. Called them the Mujahideen back then, the Cold War is what has ****ed Afghanistan, there isn't a quick solution to a problem that has been 50 years in the making.

the Taliban came about in the mid 1990's and are local people, not the Mujahideen who were largely an Arab mercenary army. Saudis, Pakistan and Iran all involved in supporting different factions, its an Islamic plaything. and before that perpetual conflict between Islam and Sikhs.

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

That's why it's known as the graveyard of empires

Exactly! Biden has decided to get out, thereby creating a vacuum and this is what happens.

His colours firmly nailed to the mast upon which he will judged.

Biden not looking good IMHO. The USA, a country totally unable to ever get a foreign policy that benefits anyone and now with a near octogenarian President with early onset dementia. Jeez, let's hope he doesn't remember where the big red button is! (I think, having watched Spitting Image all those years back, that Ronnie Reagan kept it by his bedside?)


TNBA


TTF

 

[jcdenton08]

The problem is it seems to be it's just how their society likes it. The West did their bit, but like a wife forgiving an abusive husband, the animalistic behaviour will just happen again in future. Without proper education of Western values, they were bound to revert to type. Thousands of years of genetics and ingrained beliefs can't be corrected in a few years.

 

[TomandJerry]

Taliban claim they will soon declare ‘Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan’ after President Ghani said to have fled



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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

People seem surprised that Taliban have advanced so quickly but when the US/UK first went in the Taliban were overthrown just as quick. Within their national groups allegiances are to the local war lord they also don't fight to the bitter end they just do a deal. The video at the beginning of the thread shows one particular example of this - where 500 surrendered and they were just going to be processed and then released. The Americans wanted them imprisoned or dead. Clearly some of the extremists were happy to die just to kill an American and had planned for that by smuggling in grenades in their clothes.

Should we get re-involved , IMO the answer is no especially as we were generally fighting to a completely different set of rules than the enemy with far too many rules of engagement to follow.

Unfortunately Afghanistan is a mans society and the real losers are the women who will once again be treated like sh*t especially those who have aspirations within education or a career.

I agree.

But I am not happy about how women and girls are to be treated again in that shit hole. Basically, stay on their knees with their heads covered, or the head will be removed from the body. And so on for another 500 years.

Unfortunately the only alternative is to kill all the men.

So all we can do is let them stew. Very sad.

 

[Baker lite]

This hasn’t aged well..
https://twitter.com/usembassykabul/status/1400060130243362816?s=21


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[Neville's Breakfast]

Not the first time the West has sold out Afghanistan. I am shocked that it is on Biden’s watch rather than Trump’s though. Very moving interview on BBC at the moment with Skola, a young female Afghan Education campaigner. She has been sold out today and she knows it.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Usual Yank M.O...invade a country, get the big fat contracts to rebuild it, then f*** off leaving the country in turmoil!

They'll be the end of us all I tell you!

 

[LamieRobertson]

Not the first time the West has sold out Afghanistan. I am shocked that it is on Biden’s watch rather than Trump’s though. Very moving interview on BBC at the moment with Skola, a young female Afghan Education campaigner. She has been sold out today and she knows it.

Slightly off topic ..but relevant…just watched Rachid Khan in the 100 ball tournament put in a stellar performance…yet his family are apparently still in Afghanistan , unable to leave …what mental strength

 

[AmexRuislip]

I'll be damn sure that the Iranians will be rubbing their hands at all events in Afghanistan.
They hate the US as much as the Taliban.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Exactly! Biden has decided to get out, thereby creating a vacuum and this is what happens.

His colours firmly nailed to the mast upon which he will judged.

Biden not looking good IMHO. The USA, a country totally unable to ever get a foreign policy that benefits anyone and now with a near octogenarian President with early onset dementia. Jeez, let's hope he doesn't remember where the big red button is! (I think, having watched Spitting Image all those years back, that Ronnie Reagan kept it by his bedside?)


TNBA


TTF

Possibly but Trump made the 'peace' deal last year so Biden has some get out BUT he was f*cking stupid not to understand the implications and to make that statement that the Taliban would not take over. I guess he will be sacking some advisors.

 

[lasvegan]

Not the first time the West has sold out Afghanistan. I am shocked that it is on Biden’s watch rather than Trump’s though. Very moving interview on BBC at the moment with Skola, a young female Afghan Education campaigner. She has been sold out today and she knows it.

I’m still shocked that people never realized what an incompetent fool Joe Biden is.

 

[Springal]

Been following this on social media but there is some lad from Loughborough Uni who went to Afghanistan on a ‘extreme holiday’ and is caught up in this. Wasn’t sure it’s real but looks like it is now, hope he gets out safe but going to have a few issues with U.K. Secret Services & getting into the US any time soon

https://youtu.be/qOaTwo7FfEU

https://www.facebook.com/miles.routledge - looks like he took his pictures down for security reasons

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/bi...4IwhN01U6sx0Nqa5LIw0NVL4lDLtgfAJp6mPUFoOI-kxk

 

[Baker lite]

Truly terrifying scenes at the airport.
https://twitter.com/saadmohseni/status/1427000691407654914?s=21


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[Baker lite]

This must be absolutely terrifying.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1426990913872666627?s=21


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[TomandJerry]

The war in Afghanistan is over - Taliban, via report

The spokesman for the Taliban’s political office has told Al-Jazeera TV today that the war is over in*Afghanistan*and that the type of rule and the form of regime will be clear soon.

Reuters reports:

We assure everyone that we will provide safety for citizens and diplomatic missions. We are ready to have a dialogue with all Afghan figures and will guarantee them the necessary protection,” spokesman Mohammad Naeem told the Qatar-based channel.



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[Machiavelli]

Didn’t they ( the west) train and arm both an army and Air Force with all the up to date equipment?

Do we stay there forever, getting killed and bombed ?

You might think I am ignorant, but what more could the west do? It’s not just the UK and the USA that are pulling out either a lot of countries did years ago.

For starters, 'the west' could recognise that they're fading and failing (former) giants, and that they need to lead the way in re-designing the international system such that it has both some credibility and efficacy -- and the involvement of the vast majority of countries and populations of the world.
They could have committed to Afghanistan properly, rather than embarking on disastrous adventurism in Iraq, thereby fostering more Islamic fundamentalism.
They could also have been more attuned of the sensitivities and sensibilities within the Islamic communities, and not undermined pluralist forces in Iran.

Multiple failures, by multiple governments, and multiple misunderstandings by publics too easily wooed by charlatan media organisations and politicians with their simplistic and dangerous siren calls.

As [MENTION=29192]Brighton Lines[/MENTION] says, you should listen to people with credibility and regional understanding, such as Rory Stewart.