[TV] O/T Beginning of Afghanistan War

[maltaseagull]

456 wasted lives and countless maimed and mentally scarred for life, and what for ??
If the Russians couldn't do it back in the late 70's with all their military might what chance did we have !!

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This 100%

 

[Wardy's twin]

Indeed seems odd that an estimated 75,000 Taliban with no aircraft no tanks can defeat in very quick time a 300,000 strong US/UK trained and armed army backed by US/UK intelligence and air power

Not at all - the 75000 are not fighting as a standing army they are using guerrilla tactics to hit main forces and then deploying larger groups where there are smaller numbers in isolated positions. The 300k army are mainly there because they get fed and sometimes paid the Taliban are generally committed to a single cause. If the government want to win they need to get the warlords on their side (that's how it was 'won' last time), they need to make sure the ethnic minorities who are mainly SHIA are also on their side and that both these groups fight for their own territory/families because that is where the strength is not in some nebulous idea of a country called Afghanistan. They also need to work with Iran who might see a strong sunni presence as a threat especially if they start supporting the Sunnis in Iraq.

 

[Blue3]

Not at all - the 75000 are not fighting as a standing army they are using guerrilla tactics to hit main forces and then deploying larger groups where there are smaller numbers in isolated positions. The 300k army are mainly there because they get fed and sometimes paid the Taliban are generally committed to a single cause. If the government want to win they need to get the warlords on their side (that's how it was 'won' last time), they need to make sure the ethnic minorities who are mainly SHIA are also on their side and that both these groups fight for their own territory/families because that is where the strength is not in some nebulous idea of a country called Afghanistan. They also need to work with Iran who might see a strong sunni presence as a threat especially if they start supporting the Sunnis in Iraq.

A very good summary

 

[stewart_weir]

Not at all - the 75000 are not fighting as a standing army they are using guerrilla tactics to hit main forces and then deploying larger groups where there are smaller numbers in isolated positions. The 300k army are mainly there because they get fed and sometimes paid the Taliban are generally committed to a single cause. If the government want to win they need to get the warlords on their side (that's how it was 'won' last time), they need to make sure the ethnic minorities who are mainly SHIA are also on their side and that both these groups fight for their own territory/families because that is where the strength is not in some nebulous idea of a country called Afghanistan. They also need to work with Iran who might see a strong sunni presence as a threat especially if they start supporting the Sunnis in Iraq.

The Taliban are an alliance of tribes and in recent years foreign fighters and outs groups. In effect the Taliban are not even an army hence their effectiveness (like the Vietcong) in disappearing into communities. The Afghan gov are corrupt with legal matters taking months/years. The Taliban rule isnt as corrupt and legalities are dealt with far quicker. At the core of this mess is that foreigners (the west) are perceived as infidels and unfit to influence rule because its not Sharia. Back in late 2001 when the Taliban fell there should have been no westerners, a peace keeping force of Muslim nations should have kept the peace and the rule of law should have been Sharia. Anyway its all back to 2001 and the last 20yrs were a massive waste of lost lives and trillions of $/£s

 

[Machiavelli]

the Afgans have a national army of some 180k. then there are the warlord structures with their militia. if they cant unite to hold back and defeat the Taliban, why should we bother again? and isnt this what the UN is for? subtext to some reports, i dont think the US mind if the Taliban take over, if they keep order and dont allow terrorist training camp as they did before. Taliban dont actually have any beef with the west, a live and let live arrangement might be fine by them.

I kind of get where you're coming from, but:
-- the UN only has the blue helmets tasked with peacekeeping (whether they should have an aggressive army is a different question)
-- the Taliban's recent gains has been hugely assisted by influxes of fundamentalist Islamists from other countries

 

[TomandJerry]

Afghanistan and the Taliban

What an absolute disaster after years of war it has come to nothing but the Taliban regaining almost all of Afghanistan within weeks.

20 years of war for nothing.





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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

...

 

[Chicken Run]

456 wasted lives and countless maimed and mentally scarred for life, and what for ??
If the Russians couldn't do it back in the late 70's with all their military might what chance did we have !!

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Totally agree disgraceful all round!

And all for nothing!


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[Lethargic]

What an absolute disaster after years of war it has come to nothing but the Taliban regaining almost all of Afghanistan within weeks.

20 years of war for nothing.





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For nothing, are you mad I am sure many US companies made a lot of money out of building the Afghan democracy.

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[The Fifth Column]

I find it hard to sympathise with the Afghans now crying for our help, the US and its allies have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars in aid, weapons, infrastructure, training etc and their Army can't even be arsed to put up a fight and defend its people. Now all those weapons, ammo, armoured vehicles etc are in the hands of the Taliban and we've effectively armed them to the teeth to further their cause. I'm minded to leave them to it, let the Shia and Sunni sort it out for themselves and let the muslim nations around them bear the cost of sorting it out. This is not our problem any more, if the terrorist threat increases as a result then we just deal with it as best we can. Maybe its the Chinese turn to have a go, they've got a border with Afghanistan.

 

[Randy McNob]

456 wasted lives and countless maimed and mentally scarred for life, and what for ??
If the Russians couldn't do it back in the late 70's with all their military might what chance did we have !!

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Colonel Trautman was spot on in Rambo III

 

[loz]

I find it hard to sympathise with the Afghans now crying for our help, the US and its allies have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars in aid, weapons, infrastructure, training etc and their Army can't even be arsed to put up a fight and defend its people. Now all those weapons, ammo, armoured vehicles etc are in the hands of the Taliban and we've effectively armed them to the teeth to further their cause. I'm minded to leave them to it, let the Shia and Sunni sort it out for themselves and let the muslim nations around them bear the cost of sorting it out. This is not our problem any more, if the terrorist threat increases as a result then we just deal with it as best we can. Maybe its the Chinese turn to have a go, they've got a border with Afghanistan.

Very much this, reports are little to no resistance as the Taliban March on to Afghan capital, if they can’t be bothered to fight for their country why should the west.

 

[TomandJerry]

Very much this, reports are little to no resistance as the Taliban March on to Afghan capital, if they can’t be bothered to fight for their country why should the west.

Perhaps after 20 years of war they just can't face anymore

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[Eeyore]

Very much this, reports are little to no resistance as the Taliban March on to Afghan capital, if they can’t be bothered to fight for their country why should the west.

Maybe there's a shortage of sticks and stones to throw at them.

Maybe you should read Rory Stewart's take in it. One of those who has been there and understood it all.

Then perhaps you wouldn't show such dreadful ignorance about the terror many Afghans feel now. Raise a glass to accident of birth.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

What an absolute disaster after years of war it has come to nothing but the Taliban regaining almost all of Afghanistan within weeks.

20 years of war for nothing.





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Well they got Bin Laden at which point it should have ended. The mission creep was the mistake.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Army of muppet conscripts anywhere in the world just happy to take the yankee dollar while the real soldiers do the real work. Soon as the chips are down and the real soldiers depart they all just run away. Same as it ever was

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I find it hard to sympathise with the Afghans now crying for our help, the US and its allies have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars in aid, weapons, infrastructure, training etc and their Army can't even be arsed to put up a fight and defend its people. Now all those weapons, ammo, armoured vehicles etc are in the hands of the Taliban and we've effectively armed them to the teeth to further their cause. I'm minded to leave them to it, let the Shia and Sunni sort it out for themselves and let the muslim nations around them bear the cost of sorting it out. This is not our problem any more, if the terrorist threat increases as a result then we just deal with it as best we can. Maybe its the Chinese turn to have a go, they've got a border with Afghanistan.

Yeah how dare those ********s getting executed cry for our help, ffs

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[loz]

Maybe there's a shortage of sticks and stones to throw at them.

Maybe you should read Rory Stewart's take in it. One of those who has been there and understood it all.

Then perhaps you wouldn't show such dreadful ignorance about the terror many Afghans feel now. Raise a glass to accident of birth.

Didn’t they ( the west) train and arm both an army and Air Force with all the up to date equipment?

Do we stay there forever, getting killed and bombed ?

You might think I am ignorant, but what more could the west do? It’s not just the UK and the USA that are pulling out either a lot of countries did years ago.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If only they had the fighting spirit and bravery of the Kurds.

 

[carlzeiss]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Taliban on brink of seizing Kabul: Afghan leader flees as invading war chiefs head to presidential palace to demand 'transfer of power' after militants take Bagram air base and free 5,000 loyal prisoners