Non Sport......How do you stand? Veil ban 2010 France.

[daveinprague]

You know a chauvinist? Well done. So...did you put your friend to rights on the matter and tell him that in the 21st century women aren't chattels or did you saty nothing and save up all that indignation for things EDL-related instead?

No, im not afraid to ask why. He said he was a conservative, and felt that women should be at home, looking after their men, and it was a common attitutude among Czech men... , we thought he was joking, as he is a very gentle guy mostly, but his attitude made us sit up a bit, and several others said this attitude was typcically Czech....

 

[daveinprague]

You wish. No-one would notice, more like.

As the far right in England are banging on, almost daily, about the UK being a 'Christian' country, I think youre wrong.

 

[Buzzer]

I'm not suggesting it would change attitudes but as Simster pointed out, we can't have a secular state if the head of state is also the head of the church.

And I'm pointing that in practical terms nothing here in Britain would change if we moved from this nominally Christian country to a fully secular one. The British just don't care.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Genuine question for anyone saying to people: "If you don't like it you can go back to your own country." What about British muslims?

A ban on clothing is absurb. Absolutely absurd. And, I suspect, the law was probably introduced to appeaes the anti-Islam movement in France, not because of any actual merit to the policy of evidence it would achieve anything. Well, anything other than securing a few votes.

 

[daveinprague]

yes it is about covering the face but you asked the question would you get banned from wearing a scarf in cold weather.
thus you have taken the argument down to its most ridiculous and base level.I suspect this is what you wished to achieve.
And no i am clearly miles away from judging this on purely an islamic veil level,i would add it seems it is you who has a problem in this area.
With just a very few clicks of your mouse you will be able to find out how few people have been stopped under this legislation,what exactly happens when they are and how even fewer have found themselves in front of the courts.

Not everyone is being oppressed!

I have absolutely no problem with people wearing a veil...you DO.
YOU have decided that its oppressive...whether or not many Islamic woman dont. Im sure there are many that do,
but equally as many who do not. As a Christian (I imagine) man, what position are you in to decide for another persons faith?

Like somebody said earlier, if youre brought up with it, then you wont see it as oppressive..
Whether its good or bad, well, its up to them...
Many woman live in VERY oppressive relationships in the UK, with or without a veil. I think
this is just to appease anti Islam sentiments.

 

[Simster]

Would love it, but would imagine rightwing groups would go batshit mental.

It's not really a left/right wing issue. If it was, it would have been dismantled long ago.

 

[Buzzer]

As the far right in England are banging on, almost daily, about the UK being a 'Christian' country, I think youre wrong.

The far-right - as you so often like pointing out number so few and are so disorganised that they are irrelevant. If you could take a step back from your obsession with the far right you'd see that. Seriously - what would they do if Parliament separated state from Church? Hold a rally? Set up a Facebook page? You need a more fulfilling hobby because they're irrelevant.

 

[Simster]

Genuine question for anyone saying to people: "If you don't like it you can go back to your own country." What about British muslims?

A ban on clothing is absurb. Absolutely absurd. And, I suspect, the law was probably introduced to appeaes the anti-Islam movement in France, not because of any actual merit to the policy of evidence it would achieve anything. Well, anything other than securing a few votes.

I don't think it is absurd at all because of what it represents, but you are spot on when you suggest the law was probably introduced to appease the anti-Islam movement in France.

 

[spring hall convert]

Does anyone know if the law has actually been enforced/ used? Is the the veil genuinely a thing of the past in France?

 

[daveinprague]

It's not really a left/right wing issue. If it was, it would have been dismantled long ago.

Whether its a left/right issue or not... I dont believe they would be calm about it.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The far-right - as you so often like pointing out number so few and are so disorganised that they are irrelevant. If you could take a step back from your obsession with the far right you'd see that. Seriously - what would they do if Parliament separated state from Church? Hold a rally? Set up a Facebook page? You need a more fulfilling hobby because they're irrelevant.

I agree. Unfortunately it is easy for people to start pointing fingers. If somebody of the same faith said the same things about banning the garments would they be regarded as far right too? This is where the debate falls down time and time again.

 

[Nibble]

In the UK the law opposes the oppression of women. The Burqa is a tool for the oppression of women. It should be outlawed. Just because someone else believes in it does not mean it has a place in our country. Some people believe it's right to have sex with children.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I completely sympathise with the argument that, in some cases, the women wearing them may not be doing so out of choice and that, in some cases, it is a tool of oppression and control.

But, equally, the way to deal with those issues is not, I would argue, to ban the item of clothing.

It won't change the control or oppressive attitudes one bit and would succeed only in driving a further wedge between the two communities which would cause even more problems and, importantly, make any women who are being oppressed all the harder to engage with and help.

It might make a few people FEEL like they were helping oppressed women. In reality though, it wouldn't.

 

[Buzzer]

I agree. Unfortunately it is easy for people to start pointing fingers. If somebody of the same faith said the same things about banning the garments would they be regarded as far right too? This is where the debate falls down time and time again.

It's DaveInPrague. I think his bizarre obsession with the far-right has blinded him to the bigger picture. He seems to think that we're just one Internet Saviour away from BNP/EDL sweeping to power in the UK.

 

[Simster]

Whether its a left/right issue or not... I dont believe they would be calm about it.

When you say right wing, do you mean the establishment economic right wing who actually have power in this country (The Daily Telegraph set, for example) or do you mean EDL social right wing types?

 

[pastafarian]

I have absolutely no problem with people wearing a veil...you DO.
YOU have decided that its oppressive...whether or not many Islamic woman dont. Im sure there are many that do,
but equally as many who do not. As a Christian (I imagine) man, what position are you in to decide for another persons faith?

Like somebody said earlier, if youre brought up with it, then you wont see it as oppressive..
Whether its good or bad, well, its up to them...
Many woman live in VERY oppressive relationships in the UK, with or without a veil. I think
this is just to appease anti Islam sentiments.

firstly yes i do have a problem with people wearing a veil for the simple fact i want to be able to interact with the person i am speaking to,i dont give two tosses what organisation they belong to.
secondly WTF....... me a christian man!you could not be further from the truth.But i see you seem to have your presumption button switched on this morning,far right this.....conservative that.!

if you ever get round to it and i doubt you very much will can you answer an earlier point

do you believe people will be banned from wearing scarves in winter conditions?

 

[daveinprague]

When you say right wing, do you mean the establishment economic right wing who actually have power in this country (The Daily Telegraph set, for example) or do you mean EDL social right wing types?

I mean the right in general... tbh, I would think the Telegraph people are the people most likely to be of the church going set, so yes, them...

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I just think people are wrong to assume that banning the veil would actually a) Help tensions in this country, or b) Help those women who wear them who are being oppressed.

 

[daveinprague]

firstly yes i do have a problem with people wearing a veil for the simple fact i want to be able to interact with the person i am speaking to,i dont give two tosses what organisation they belong to.
secondly WTF....... me a christian man!you could not be further from the truth.But i see you seem to have your presumption button switched on this morning,far right this.....conservative that.!

if you ever get round to it and i doubt you very much will can you answer an earlier point

do you believe people will be banned from wearing scarves in winter conditions?

The main part of my point...at what level does this law break down...the law isnt specifically about Islamic veils, its about wearing a face covering of any sort in public... which is why I dont think the law is workable.

 

[Canonman]

There is no place for Islam in a modern, free thinking world. Islam is a repressive institution and should be thrown out of the UK.

Nail on head.