Non Sport......How do you stand? Veil ban 2010 France.

[Westdene Seagull]

It's like that "Are you coming here to commit terrorist activities" question on US immigration forms. I wonder how many get caught out by this?

Given the recent terror case here where the participants were compared to the terrorists in Four Lions it wouldn't surprise me if some were stupid enough to tick that box !

 

[daveinprague]

perhaps i should have been clearer



NO

on the flip side,if the gendarmes come across 200 likely looking PSG sorts causing grief all with scarves around their faces i would expect them to be able to question the said gentlemen and ask them to remove the face covering.

Now more importantly do you honestly believe the average Pierre walking down the street wearing a scarf over their face because its cold is likely to be stopped and told to remove it? If the answer is no, ask yourself why you felt the need to ask the original question in the first place.

Because the law is about the covering of the face...whether its a Islamic veil...a mask...a balaclava...a motorcycle helment... which is why its a bit of a ridiculous law, and will be virtually impossible to impose. I think youre judging this only on an Islamic veil level.

 

[Simster]

I can't believe the French parliament hasn't got more pressing legislation to debate. This is even less relevant than the fox hunting debate here.

For what it's worth, I'd have no problem with a similar ban here, and I wish we were a secular republic state like France.

 

[Buzzer]

However, you cannot deny that a lot of muslim women want to keep the veil, and its nothing to do with oppression, as people against Islam would like you to believe.

And there's plenty of female advocates for female circumcision and force-feeding of muslim girls in North Africa. It's got everything to do with oppression and a lifetime of brain-washing women into feeling that they are second-class citizens.

Here in Malaysia, they seem to have the balance right where Muslim women wear headscarves but as often as not they're also a fashion statement as the women accessorize their headwear to suit their clothes. Compare and contrast a few weeks back where there were thousands of Arab tourists over just before Ramadan and ALL the Arab women wore burqas and a large minority also wearing black gloves. Strangely, the Arab men didn't seem quite so hung up about their faith with all of them in shorts, flip-flops, t-shirts. Stranger still, the women all walked behind their husbands, carried the bags, left their husbands to do all the talking in shops and restaurants. Even on the beaches, the men wore swimming trunks and the women remained in burqas.

The fact that I haven't seen a single full length burqa since the Arabs all went back suggests to me that it's about how (specifically) Arab men see their women (pun intended..or maybe not) and it certainly isn't as an equal.

I agree with Jack Straw on this issue too. It's impossible to hold a conversation with someone wearing a burqa. In fact it comes across as hostile.

I'm not in favour of bans and agree that people ought to have freedom of expression but it does make me wonder just how free the Arab women are not to wear what appears to be an oppressive garment.


..and why are burqas black? In hot countries it's better to wear light colours that reflect heat rather than absorb it. Oh, hang on...that's the colour that Arab men wear. I wonder why.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

For what it's worth, I'd have no problem with a similar ban here, and I wish we were a secular republic state like France.

Bugger - I agree with you bar the republic bit !

 

[daveinprague]

I asked a Czech bloke where a friend of mine (his girlfriend) was, and he told me she was at home 'Where she should be'..and it was clear he was being serious, and not joking....not sure that oppression towards women is only for Islam...
Just think this ban is pretty unworkable.

 

[Simster]

Bugger - I agree with you bar the republic bit !

Well you'll struggle to create a secular state in a country where the current head of state is also head of the church.

 

[Nibble]

Good on France. Shame they didn't demonstrate such strength of character back in the 40's but no better place to start than the Muslims.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well you'll struggle to create a secular state in a country where the current head of state is also head of the church.

Easy stop the head of state also being the head of the church.

 

[Simster]

I asked a Czech bloke where a friend of mine (his girlfriend) was, and he told me she was at home 'Where she should be'..and it was clear he was being serious, and not joking....not sure that oppression towards women is only for Islam...
Just think this ban is pretty unworkable.

Is his girlfriend expected to conform to a dress code that covers her up, regardless of her wishes? That is the point being discussed here.

If you want to widen the debate, then ask yourself if his girlfriend has the vote or whether she is legally allowed to drive, or whether Czech society explicitly sets her up as a second class citizen.

 

[Simster]

Easy stop the head of state also being the head of the church.

Good luck with that.

 

[Buzzer]

I asked a Czech bloke where a friend of mine (his girlfriend) was, and he told me she was at home 'Where she should be'..and it was clear he was being serious, and not joking....not sure that oppression towards women is only for Islam...
Just think this ban is pretty unworkable.

You know a chauvinist? Well done. So...did you put your friend to rights on the matter and tell him that in the 21st century women aren't chattels or did you saty nothing and save up all that indignation for things EDL-related instead?

 

[Nibble]

I will vehemently oppose any enforced institution that murders and oppresses it's own peoples the way Islam does. There is no place for it in the modern world. End of.

 

[daveinprague]

Easy stop the head of state also being the head of the church.

Would love it, but would imagine rightwing groups would go batshit mental.

 

[pastafarian]

Because the law is about the covering of the face...whether its a Islamic veil...a mask...a balaclava...a motorcycle helment... which is why its a bit of a ridiculous law, and will be virtually impossible to impose. I think youre judging this only on an Islamic veil level.

yes it is about covering the face but you asked the question would you get banned from wearing a scarf in cold weather.
thus you have taken the argument down to its most ridiculous and base level.I suspect this is what you wished to achieve.
And no i am clearly miles away from judging this on purely an islamic veil level,i would add it seems it is you who has a problem in this area.
With just a very few clicks of your mouse you will be able to find out how few people have been stopped under this legislation,what exactly happens when they are and how even fewer have found themselves in front of the courts.

Not everyone is being oppressed!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

And there's plenty of female advocates for female circumcision and force-feeding of muslim girls in North Africa. It's got everything to do with oppression and a lifetime of brain-washing women into feeling that they are second-class citizens.

Here in Malaysia, they seem to have the balance right where Muslim women wear headscarves but as often as not they're also a fashion statement as the women accessorize their headwear to suit their clothes. Compare and contrast a few weeks back where there were thousands of Arab tourists over just before Ramadan and ALL the Arab women wore burqas and a large minority also wearing black gloves. Strangely, the Arab men didn't seem quite so hung up about their faith with all of them in shorts, flip-flops, t-shirts. Stranger still, the women all walked behind their husbands, carried the bags, left their husbands to do all the talking in shops and restaurants. Even on the beaches, the men wore swimming trunks and the women remained in burqas.

The fact that I haven't seen a single full length burqa since the Arabs all went back suggests to me that it's about how (specifically) Arab men see their women (pun intended..or maybe not) and it certainly isn't as an equal.

I completely agree. When you see the full length burqa on a regular basis, especially where I live you get the feeling it is more to do with control of the person and faith and nothing to do with it being personal choice. That does not fit comfortably with me, especially in the UK where women have the same equal rights as men.

It is all about balance as you quite rightly point out. In the UK I don't think we are striking that balance at the moment.
I don't think it is to do with people who are born here either, I think it is to do with people who arrived here who are not integrating properly. Just my opinion on it.

 

[Buzzer]

Easy stop the head of state also being the head of the church.

And how will that change British attitudes one iota? I don't know if you had noticed but being Anglican means never having to worry about religion intruding demonstrably in your life unless you really want it to. It's fantastic, it really is. A state religion that asks absolutely nothing of you.

 

[Buzzer]

Would love it, but would imagine rightwing groups would go batshit mental.

You wish. No-one would notice, more like.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I expect people to respect existing culture when visiting other countries. Would you adopt a Western style approach if you lived in a Muslim country (in terms of attire)?

Having respect for a culture does not mean you have to adopt their culture. I'm an ex-pat and I fully respect German culture but I don't walk around in leather shorts all day and I don't think my Teutonic friends expect me to.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And how will that change British attitudes one iota? I don't know if you had noticed but being Anglican means never having to worry about religion intruding demonstrably in your life unless you really want it to. It's fantastic, it really is. A state religion that asks absolutely nothing of you.

I'm not suggesting it would change attitudes but as Simster pointed out, we can't have a secular state if the head of state is also the head of the church.