[Albion] No criticism of RDZ ?

[Weststander]

Not managers fault March contributed nothing in attack and Webster was terrible. I did not understand why spent so much time wide left instead of central

Wide right?

Because RDZ had pushed Milner 70 yards upfield.

 

[Hiheidi]

 

[dwayne]

Imho he will go on to having greater success elsewhere. With Arab or US money, he'd have/be bankrolled to buy world class players x 2 for every position ...... including RB and DM!

But does he have that extra nous about him to win a massive match managing a massive team. That's where the jury's out at the moment. Too one dimensional.

 

[chickens]

But does he have that extra nous about him to win a massive match managing a massive team. That's where the jury's out at the moment. Too one dimensional.

Given that he’s in his first full season in the Premier League, he’s bright, hardworking and alive to what’s going on around him, I’m quietly confident he’ll continue to adjust and improve.

We’re a good team but we’re going to lose matches this season. To see how fragile we all are after one loss is a bit concerning.

 

[dwayne]

Given that he’s in his first full season in the Premier League, he’s bright, hardworking and alive to what’s going on around him, I’m quietly confident he’ll continue to adjust and improve.

We’re a good team but we’re going to lose matches this season. To see how fragile we all are after one loss is a bit concerning.

I think it's the fact that everyone saw this coming. Loads on NSC were negative before the game yesterday. So obvious we are conceeding too many chances against at the moment. We got lucky Vs Luton and wolves.

Need a tactical adjustment next weekend. Play same way again we will lose heavily.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I discussed how you deal with De Zerbi's tactics a fair while ago on a Liverpool thread. Due to the Goalkeeper being involved in the build up, it's very hard to commit enough players to the press to win the ball high up against us. You either have to have us making mistakes or pressing has to be elite level. No one has done this well against us.

I said at the time, the only option which has a chance against it tactically (as horrible as it might be to watch) is to cede possession, sit off us and try and counter. Everton and West Ham now have both since done this and we have struggled to find an answer, particularly once a goal behind.

Against a deep line, we did most of the right things tactically and created opportunities and had set pieces. We weren't as bad as historically we've been under Potter, like against Sheffield Utd where we just played in front.

The problem I think is a mentality one. When you setup a team like us to play on the front foot and no one presses you, it's easier to move forward and engage the opposition. This leaves a LOT of space in behind and 1on1s. We're never going to have enough defenders with the pace and strength to help us out in these situations, so the only realistic answer is that in these situations we need to take less risk going forward, committing fewer men and ensuring we have adequate cover on the break.

I felt it was handled markedly better than when against Everton but still there's a little naivety in there.

There's a part of me that doesn't want De Zerbi to adjust, as caution doesn't seem like a word in his vocabulary. I think we'll either have to accept the occasional frustrating loss like this or we perhaps dull the panache of most other games. I suspect RDZ is working to maintain both and has a little bit more food for thought this weekend but I'd rather a frustrating loss like this and the 4-1's we've just experienced however gutting it feels at the time.

I don't necessarily think the personnel matters here.

I mean Guardiola’s approach is to play 2 proper defenders at full back, both of whom invert to allow for a quick press in the turnover and to stop the team being run through.

I love an attacking full back personally, but without Caicedo we definitely need to work out how to stop the turnovers in such situations so we’re snuffing the chances out higher up the pitch.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

We score first and it’s a whole different game.

No, I don’t think RDZ set us up wrong. I think Webster’s errors cost us.

It was an error, but there was a long time left at that point, and we were busy getting nowhere offensively, other than a Gilmour shot….

 

[Robert Codners Nostrils]

Hughton would sort out the defensive frailties. In fact, I’ve been deep in thought and after months of research, I have come up with this managerial formula:

(hughton + RDZ)/2 = Potter

 

[chickens]

I think it's the fact that everyone saw this coming. Loads on NSC were negative before the game yesterday. So obvious we are conceeding too many chances against at the moment. We got lucky Vs Luton and wolves.

Need a tactical adjustment next weekend. Play same way again we will lose heavily.

I don’t believe RDZ is immune from criticism, and certainly we seemed vulnerable on that right hand side.

I’m certain RDZ would accept his part in what happened against West Ham, but football is a team game, we don’t win or lose just on the team he puts out.

Individual errors, positioning, team mates not entirely used to playing together yet, all can contribute.

RDZ can also fairly state that he can only pick from the squad he has available, though I like many others would have preferred to see Veltman start at right-back. I don’t see the squad train every day though, my view doesn’t count for anything.

I trust in the team and the management, that doesn’t mean RDZ is beyond criticism, to me it means not showing frustration because you believe a talented individual is working as hard as they can for the club’s benefit, and nobody gets every decision right in hindsight.

 

[Zeberdi]

Unlike most on this thread, I don’t think the fault for our loss yesterday can be laid at RDZ’s feet (although he would be the first to accept the ultimate responsibility).

As has been said repeatedly (and I said it too on the match thread) that early goal conceded from an error by Webster changed the whole dynamic onwards - De Zerbi ball as we all know, has a large component of inviting teams to come forward - WH flooded their MF line up to take advantage of our post Caicedo/Mackie MF but their strategy was to drop them deep if they scored first - we’ve faced teams like this before but where WH got the better of us, not only did they play a very low narrow block (which made Ferguson, Webster innocuous and to a lesser degree Pedro) but were able to make some lethal counter attacks through our forward MF and that’s where we really became unstuck:

Every time we broke, WH were very fast in getting half a dozen defenders behind the ball, every time WH broke, we had two defenders chasing the ball and our DMF was left standing - much the same way we do to other teams - as has been said again and again too, we lack essential speed in our full back positions, we lacked gravitas and strength in DMF - Gilmour had a good game but he is no where near a replacement for Caceido.


RB - has been an issue for us since last season with Lamptey and Veltman both with injuries as we know - Webster does not have the speed to counter players like Antonio and that fact cost us dearly - at best Webster is cover and not a starter for us - Milner was completely out of his depth playing so high IMO, he looked exhausted and stressed after 20 mins and there seemed to be a few communication issues/disagreements between him and Gross I think - again, Milner is cover not a starter. He also does not have the fitness level and speed to get back and block counters in a high pressing DeZerbi game. However, with Ensico injured, a gap in our DMF still, tweaks had to be made accordingly.

RDZ can only set the team up with the players he has and will be the first to say where we are lacking in the squad we have - we need speed in our full backs to reduce the vulnerability of playing high pressing attacking football - we are not there yet and we werent there last season with Lamptey and Veltman injured etc. I don’t know why he didnt play Veltman yesterday, maybe because he is still an injury risk with his hamstring? RDZ has also said repeatedly that we need to find a replacement for Caceido if we sell him but RDZ can’t control the speed of the transfer market nor who we sign - We were unable to sign Colwill, we wasted time chasing Kudus (who could have provided cover down the right) and we have not managed to sew up the Baleba deal before the season started so we looked very porous in our DMF yesterday. Again that’s not RDZs fault..it’s not anyone’s fault

Wereare Brighton

And

It’s

a

Work in Progress folks!

 

[Weststander]

But does he have that extra nous about him to win a massive match managing a massive team. That's where the jury's out at the moment. Too one dimensional.

We’ll find out next season I expect.

Imho he deserves the opportunity to manage a squad containing 22 stars in their positions.

 

[ChickenBaltiPie]

Lamptey when available under Potter proved to be our saviour on a number of occasions in all the situations we found ourselves caught out in yesterday, when both Dunk & Webster were pushing forward to help in offence/corners etc, his (old?) pace was invaluable at preventing a smash and grab, route one lob and chase counter attack. I might be wrong and I’m happy to be corrected, but that’s how I remember it.

 

[Weststander]

I mean Guardiola’s approach is to play 2 proper defenders at full back, both of whom invert to allow for a quick press in the turnover and to stop the team being run through.

I love an attacking full back personally, but without Caicedo we definitely need to work out how to stop the turnovers in such situations so we’re snuffing the chances out higher up the pitch.

Guardiola’s also obsessive about a DM who never ventures forward. There 90 minutes to protect and plug gaps.

 

[maltaseagull]

I wondered if he was making a point before the transfer window closes.

Ridiculous. Surely he TALkS to his boss about new signings!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Guardiola’s also obsessive about a DM who never ventures forward. There 90 minutes to protect and plug gaps.

Absolutely. I wasn’t suggesting we don’t buy a replacement for Caicedo. Just that additional things can be done to counteract how porous we are defensively.

 

[Machiavelli]

Unfortunately there was a bloody great Caicedo-sized hole in our midfield, and god did it show. He was the perfect shield to cover in front of the back line, and there was nobody there performing that role. Easier said than done, but we need to find a replacement for him pronto.

Yes. This is what I think is the key reason for the defeat and the poor performance. That said, it happens. I think this is the way to play against us for most apart from the best sides. West Ham executed it very well. Webster didn't get enough cover, and made two bad mistakes for their first and third goals (not sure he did too much else wrong).
We've lost a game of football. Don't think it warrants any big drama.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

I mean Guardiola’s approach is to play 2 proper defenders at full back, both of whom invert to allow for a quick press in the turnover and to stop the team being run through.

I love an attacking full back personally, but without Caicedo we definitely need to work out how to stop the turnovers in such situations so we’re snuffing the chances out higher up the pitch.

We do and you can see RDZ trying to get Milner to shore up that space from RB by starting out wide then dropping infield - he just does it very high up the pitch (see the Gilmour chance highlights for example)

There's no real tactical issue with the first goal. Reasonable positions taken up, and a bit of luck for West Ham.
Second goal, tactical positioning OK. A problem with intensity from Webster and tracking from and Estupinan
Third goal, tactical positioning OK. A problem with intensity and marking from Webster and Estupinan misreads the ball and goes for the wrong man.

None of the goals are a tactical failure in my view.

 

[tigertim68]

RDZ is probably going to be our best ever manager, I love the man , his passion and it is the best football we have ever played.

But… I do feel that yesterday the team was set up wrong and there did not appear to be a change in tactics to counteract the threat down the right. Milner was playing higher up the pitch, which I assume was to help break down West Ham. This did leave Webster ( who was woeful) exposed. All three goals appeared to come from the same area and RDZ did not try and counteract this. Yes it would be great to have new players but a managers job is to adapt to the situation he has got, he was definitely out managed by Moyes. We need a solution to teams that sit deep and and hit us on the break with pace.

I agree

 

[Machiavelli]

Yeah agreed, change of keeper was a bit odd as well, any one know why?

RDZ did say that the two GKs will share the load this season. I don't know if I'm a fan of this. Can certainly see that switching GKs between competitions is valid.
I think Bart was drafted in today because he's seen as better in the air than Steele, and set pieces into the box are one of WH's strengths. Bart defended that early ball in well which resulted in Soucek going off.

 

[tigertim68]

Yes. This is what I think is the key reason for the defeat and the poor performance. That said, it happens. I think this is the way to play against us for most apart from the best sides. West Ham executed it very well. Webster didn't get enough cover, and made two bad mistakes for their first and third goals (not sure he did too much else wrong).
We've lost a game of football. Don't think it warrants any big drama.

Not much else wrong just cost us a couple of goals