[Albion] No criticism of RDZ ?

[Jimmy Grimble]

Liverpool have just got the quality to break the block. Set pieces is one, the crossing ability of Robertson another, and the range of passing from TAA yet another. They also play at such intensity, at a level that we haven't reached as yet.
I'm not blaming the players, RDZ, recruitment, etc. You're aware of the financial differences more than I am, and Klopp has managed to make them over-achieve from that.

The other way to beat the low block is to ensure you have incredible ball strikers. This is how Man City often beat it.

Ferguson, Enciso and Gross are probably our best three. Having them in those pockets of space around the edge of the box and being able to get snap shots away will be key for us.

 

[Sheebo]

We also didn’t play badly. Not good by our high standards but not badly. Probably was on a par with the Luton and Wolves performances - there are just fine margins in football.

 

[Machiavelli]

I've seen some of the analysis this weekend and it's a bit sensationalist.

Football is all about controlling the space. You can't control the entirety of the pitch as there aren't enough bodies so you have to leave gaps somewhere. A lot of more defensive teams cede areas out wide between the midfield and attack with a view to progressing the ball vertically.

We don't - this isn't something new and something managers won't already have worked out. To suggest it is, is a bit naive.

We very deliberately engage higher up the field in the wide midfield -> attacking spaces most teams leave alone and we bait the press, hoping to create a lot of space behind to use that positioning effectively and create opportunities. This puts opposition defences under pressure nice and early and can create opportunities if teams over-commit. The downside is it leaves spaces out wide between the midfield and defence when we progress the ball forward. These spaces in behind can be exploited by any team and have been on a number of occasions both this season and last but the gaps are coverable in the defensive structure De Zerbi uses.

The challenge is that these gaps create situations where defenders are one on one or are running back towards our goal which is more risky. Any failure to track, close down or any missed tackle/interception can lead to opportunities for the opposition.

As I said earlier in this thread, tactically there's not a lot wrong with the setup given what we're trying to do and I don't think the problem is as severe as some writers would have you believe.
I also don't think West Ham (or most other teams) get away with being as defensive as they did yesterday at Home in front of thousands of fans, nor will they potentially be as successful.

As RDZ says, his idea is not going to change, we're just always carrying a level of risk defensively so we can dominate offensively. Some days it goes against you.

p.s. If I were a betting man, I'd never back us at home

@Weststander, you say great debate. This post has enhanced it

 

[Machiavelli]

The other way to beat the low block is to ensure you have incredible ball strikers. This is how Man City often beat it.

Ferguson, Enciso and Gross are probably our best three. Having them in those pockets of space around the edge of the box and being able to get snap shots away will be key for us.

Yes, agreed. We're right to be excited by Julio and Evan. The way Ferguson took that short lay off from Welbeck in the first half, turned and shot was outstanding -- that kind of surprise and speed at executing it is another way to do it; likewise City's first vs Sheff Utd (ie put a decent cross for someone with great heading ability to attack).

 

[Weststander]

I've seen some of the analysis this weekend and it's a bit sensationalist.

Football is all about controlling the space. You can't control the entirety of the pitch as there aren't enough bodies so you have to leave gaps somewhere. A lot of more defensive teams cede areas out wide between the midfield and attack with a view to progressing the ball vertically.

We don't - this isn't something new and something managers won't already have worked out. To suggest it is, is a bit naive.

We very deliberately engage higher up the field in the wide midfield -> attacking spaces most teams leave alone and we bait the press, hoping to create a lot of space behind to use that positioning effectively and create opportunities. This puts opposition defences under pressure nice and early and can create opportunities if teams over-commit. The downside is it leaves spaces out wide between the midfield and defence when we progress the ball forward. These spaces in behind can be exploited by any team and have been on a number of occasions both this season and last but the gaps are coverable in the defensive structure De Zerbi uses.

The challenge is that these gaps create situations where defenders are one on one or are running back towards our goal which is more risky. Any failure to track, close down or any missed tackle/interception can lead to opportunities for the opposition.

As I said earlier in this thread, tactically there's not a lot wrong with the setup given what we're trying to do and I don't think the problem is as severe as some writers would have you believe.
I also don't think West Ham (or most other teams) get away with being as defensive as they did yesterday at Home in front of thousands of fans, nor will they potentially be as successful.

As RDZ says, his idea is not going to change, we're just always carrying a level of risk defensively so we can dominate offensively. Some days it goes against you.

p.s. If I were a betting man, I'd never back us at home

To add, RDZ will looking for quality players to be added to the squad this week, obviously defenders. Any manager is only as good as the players they have to work with. Taggart once said something along those lines.

 

[Zeberdi]

Any manager is only as good as the players they have to work with. Taggart once said something along those lines.

As have some of us on this thread - and we didn’t get paid for it

 

[GallodiMare]

Can't see RDZ winning leagues and trophies elsewhere with the all out attacking philosophy, it's fun but it's just too ambitious even with a squad like man city's.

Look at the trophy winning managers in football , mourinho , ancelotti , unai emery even pep they are pragmatists you need to attack well and defend well at times you need to mix things up when the time arrives.

Big and interesting season for RDZ.

All true what you say.
A small detail: Pep, Klopp, Ferguson, Ancelotti, Zidane, Mourinho and so on have never worked and won anything with small clubs that every year sell at least two jewels from their collection.
To buy who? Young hopeful players to be transformed from rough stones into sparkling diamonds.
I wonder what results Pep would get with the human material that RDZ has at its disposal.
Looking at his face, I suspect the coach is not happy with the club's policy. What could be better than pointing it out with a home defeat?
I also would like to say something about the referee, but perhaps it has already been said.
Three penalties denied? Every time I have seen him refereeing, even in Europe, he seemed to me to be an absolutely inadequate or biased referee.
Ask Mourinho with his Roma in the Europa League final.
He (Taylor) almost seems that when he sees something Italian, he already starts with blinkers.
It can be a player, a coach or an entire team.
A serious club would raise protests in the agreed venues, such as refusing him to referee any of our other matches.
But maybe here we are only talking about income, about money.
WTF do we care about results and scores.
No?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We score first and it’s a whole different game.

No, I don’t think RDZ set us up wrong. I think Webster’s errors cost us.

End of thread. I won't bother reading the other 8 pages.......

(And as an aside, what is the narrative here? A. Bloke makes mistake, BURN him? B. Bloke has never and will never make a mistake and if we don't win EVERY game it is what it is? C. We should win every game and if we don't then BURN someone?

I'm in the B camp, but I would imagine that he may make the occasional mistake. @Wokeworrier suggested, probably correctly, that I wrote something that wasn't entirely accurate, once. And a broken clock is correct twice a day. Southampton 6 Manchester united 3. Fergie time to go? In 1996?

 

[tstanbur]

Quite -

And - Turning it around for a moment and moving away from criticism of RDZ - has anyone actually considered that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the style of RDZs football, nor does it need to be modified despite us getting the odd trouncing- it’s being admired throughout the league and throughout Europe. This issue for me, is that for deZerbi ball to work in the way that some (gentle) critics of RDZ are demanding, it requires a level of skill and pace that we are still lacking in places and always have - notwithstanding loosing our MF pivot - RDZ knew it would be a loss and from the outset knew we are a Club that will always sell on for the right price because it’s buy low sell high that sustains our business model - so we were never going to replace Caceido with another £80-100m player - and we would have to spend around that to get anyone near Moises’s level of skill.

It’s not the style of football that is the issue, it’s the talent that’s still lacking in a few key areas that is making us vulnerable when we press high but in the meantime, stating the blinking obvious, we qualified for Europe and came 6th last season and personally I have no reason to think that our biggest fan,TB, PB one of the industry’s top Executives along with one of the best managers in the modern game, would be happy this season for the Club to regress both in terms of competition results and team talent- that flies in the face of everything I know as a supporter of the Club.

We need to keep on scoring goals which we do with RDZs system of play - and as long as we do, we will maintain a respectable GD even if the risk of conceeding goals is higher and whilst a severe spanking from time to time will hurt, it wont define our season.

This is only the 3rd week - I would like to see how our midfield is shaping up after the international break before jumping to the conclusion that’s its all going to hell in a hand basket and our very talented Manager is to blame.

Would people really be happier playing safe, defensive football under a manager like Potter

It really isn't strange. JPvH had one good game (yet Haaland still managed to score), and hasn't been quite so good in the other games that he's started. I'm glad RDZ doesn't base his analysis of our CBs purely on one gam.e

No, Haaland didn’t score in that game, it was Foden.

Keep noticing your “know it all” posts getting facts wrong.

 

[dwayne]

All true what you say.
A small detail: Pep, Klopp, Ferguson, Ancelotti, Zidane, Mourinho and so on have never worked and won anything with small clubs that every year sell at least two jewels from their collection.
To buy who? Young hopeful players to be transformed from rough stones into sparkling diamonds.
I wonder what results Pep would get with the human material that RDZ has at its disposal.
Looking at his face, I suspect the coach is not happy with the club's policy. What could be better than pointing it out with a home defeat?
I also would like to say something about the referee, but perhaps it has already been said.
Three penalties denied? Every time I have seen him refereeing, even in Europe, he seemed to me to be an absolutely inadequate or biased referee.
Ask Mourinho with his Roma in the Europa League final.
He (Taylor) almost seems that when he sees something Italian, he already starts with blinkers.
It can be a player, a coach or an entire team.
A serious club would raise protests in the agreed venues, such as refusing him to referee any of our other matches.
But maybe here we are only talking about income, about money.
WTF do we care about results and scores.
No?

Ciao Roberto good to see you here

You can't be unhappy about the clubs policy of buying low and selling high. That's the ethos of the club and one you would have signed up for when you joined. I stand by comment though, unless you can become more pragmatic when required, managing a top top big team you will not win the major trophies in my humble opinion.

I agree with everything you say about Taylor he's an absolute cun ......

 

[El Presidente]

Calling @Dr. No

 

[worthingweird]

Have a pop at our manager at your peril...

 

[Hamilton]

End of thread. I won't bother reading the other 8 pages.......

(And as an aside, what is the narrative here? A. Bloke makes mistake, BURN him? B. Bloke has never and will never make a mistake and if we don't win EVERY game it is what it is? C. We should win every game and if we don't then BURN someone?

I'm in the B camp, but I would imagine that he may make the occasional mistake. @Wokeworrier suggested, probably correctly, that I wrote something that wasn't entirely accurate, once. And a broken clock is correct twice a day. Southampton 6 Manchester united 3. Fergie time to go? In 1996?

I'm with you.

People make mistakes. Sometimes people have a very bad day at the office. It doesn't mean tomorrow will be just as bad. As you say, no burn required. Just need to coach him to see if he fits what we need long term. If not, we find him somewhere else and say thank you.

 

[Oh_aye]

When you look at the stats it's hard to be over critical. Totally dominated the game and had a shedload of chances. If you don't take any if them and make defensive mistakes and your opposition are clinical you lose.

It was one big game of brinkmanship. Us holding the possession but being vulnerable when we lost it. The main difference being without Caicedo as cover and Ali Macs terminator ability to hold onto the ball, the brinkman gets a lot more shippy.

 

[Springal]

When you look at the stats it's hard to be over critical. Totally dominated the game and had a shedload of chances. If you don't take any if them and make defensive mistakes and your opposition are clinical you lose.

It was one big game of brinkmanship. Us holding the possession but being vulnerable when we lost it. The main difference being without Caicedo as cover and Ali Macs terminator ability to hold onto the ball, the brinkman gets a lot more shippy.

Exactly - and RDZ said both would be leaving this summer before last season had even ended, yet we’ve failed to adequately replace them.

But we still have 60 hours before we can comment because we have the best recruitment in the league or something

 

[Albion in the north]

No, Haaland didn’t score in that game, it was Foden.

Keep noticing your “know it all” posts getting facts wrong.

Glad you pointed that out. I couldnt be bothered.