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[News] Nigel Farage and Reform



GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
160
Europe
so the views of neoliberals, or the old thatcherites, that dont like Conservatve economics of the past 15 years are simply wrong and dismissed out of hand? great insight, thanks.
Straw man? I never mentioned neoliberal nor old Thatcherites. Perhaps demonstrate how the most recent Conservatives can be described as 'far left' by reference to one of their socialist/Communist policies.
 




pigbite

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2007
571
Three points spring to my mind.

1. The IICSA enquiry was a joke. It was underfunded, had zero support from the Tory government, spent far less time delving into the details of so many of the instances of CSA it was looking at and has had zero support from either government since in terms of implementing the recommendations. The Australian Royal Commission inquiry a few years before was chalk and cheese in terms of funding, support and outcome. Tory bleating about it now is hypocrisy of the highest order.

2. CSA is a crime that relies on abusers exploiting whatever opportunities are afforded them. Priests, teachers, care workers, media stars, family members just manipulate, groom and exploit in plain sight. They have done it for years and will continue to do it all the time victims are ignored, inquiry recommendations are ignored and clear red flags are ignored for whatever reason.

3. The recent terrible case in France of the systematic rape of a woman by dozens of men, enabled by her sick husband, whilst not CSA is a clear demonstration of how opportunistic a frightening number of men are to get a sexual kicks however they want. I have no doubt that the issue we have seen in northern towns could very easily have been predominately white men had a similar set of circumstances presented themselves.

Of course, sexual crimes of any type are committed by women as well as men but it is overwhelmingly men and it's overwhelmingly men that are not on the edge of society but ones that have jobs, families and many would not expect to do what they do. The attitude of men to sex is at the core of this and that problem is far from being understood let alone solved.
 




Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,875
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Jenrick said in that interview that cultures are not equal. This means he views cultures within a hierarchy, which is another way of saying that he is a racist.
And this is where cultural imperialism can fall over.

The irony is that people like Jenrick see 'our culture' as superior and they can only mean one of two things. Either a Liberal Democratic culture and one that accepts people from other walks of life, people's sexuality, trans people and equality for women is better than a monoculture controlled by authoritarian laws. Or the culture of 'white Britain' circa 1950 is better than a culture of diversity. The first is hypocritical, since many on the new right are following authoritarian nationalists who are variously oppressing LGBTQ people, outlawing abortion and stoking up nationalism and the second is racist, backwards looking and inaccurate.
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,750
Personally, when it comes to social attitudes I prefer to think in terms of liberal/authoritarian. For example, I don't think that one's opinion on same sex marriage or drug legalisation can be defined by right/left. To me these traditional labels only really pertain to economic and political power, and how these are distributed. Ultimately, I think the problem is that labels (like facts) are fast becoming meaningless which makes it very hard to discuss anything.
This is the bit i struggle with. The right wing views on stuff are so similar to Islamist.

Homosexuality, corporal punishment, capital punishment, role of women etc. so many views of the Islamists chime with the reform views of the “good old days”
 






Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat

Will that take seven years like the one Professor Jay concluded in 2022? Why does Farage think his will be better?
Professor Jay laid out 22 recommendations which Johnson, Truss and Sunak ignored.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Three points spring to my mind.

1. The IICSA enquiry was a joke. It was underfunded, had zero support from the Tory government, spent far less time delving into the details of so many of the instances of CSA it was looking at and has had zero support from either government since in terms of implementing the recommendations. The Australian Royal Commission inquiry a few years before was chalk and cheese in terms of funding, support and outcome. Tory bleating about it now is hypocrisy of the highest order.

2. CSA is a crime that relies on abusers exploiting whatever opportunities are afforded them. Priests, teachers, care workers, media stars, family members just manipulate, groom and exploit in plain sight. They have done it for years and will continue to do it all the time victims are ignored, inquiry recommendations are ignored and clear red flags are ignored for whatever reason.

3. The recent terrible case in France of the systematic rape of a woman by dozens of men, enabled by her sick husband, whilst not CSA is a clear demonstration of how opportunistic a frightening number of men are to get a sexual kicks however they want. I have no doubt that the issue we have seen in northern towns could very easily have been predominately white men had a similar set of circumstances presented themselves.

Of course, sexual crimes of any type are committed by women as well as men but it is overwhelmingly men and it's overwhelmingly men that are not on the edge of society but ones that have jobs, families and many would not expect to do what they do. The attitude of men to sex is at the core of this and that problem is far from being understood let alone solved.
Rape is less about sex than power.
 




ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,976
Just far enough away from LDC
Will that take seven years like the one Professor Jay concluded in 2022? Why does Farage think his will be better?
Professor Jay laid out 22 recommendations which Johnson, Truss and Sunak ignored.
Great, let's get an independent inquiry into Russian interference in the brexit vote then? It's clearly that simple that anybody can set one up. Of course the dumbos he is trying to impress won't care that he is lying
 


Scappa

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2017
1,645

Maybe I’m missing something but seems curious that Nigel Farage didn’t turn up for the House of Commons debate on grooming gangs yesterday. Similarly Tice, who found time to go on LBC.

Just as Farage, so concerned about English fishermen, could only bring himself to attend 1/43 Fisheries Committee meetings whilst he was an MEP. All mouth and shitty mustard-colored trousers
 






Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
18,010
Fiveways
This is the bit i struggle with. The right wing views on stuff are so similar to Islamist.

Homosexuality, corporal punishment, capital punishment, role of women etc. so many views of the Islamists chime with the reform views of the “good old days”
I see it a little differently. The contemporary revived right (Putin, Trump, Farage, etc and often spilling into the likes of Jenrick, etc) will do whatever they can to stoke 'culture wars', and this leads them into inconsistent positions. They'll support the trans community against Islamism, or feminists against the trans community, or the Jewish community against Muslims and Muslims against Jews. And so on.

And all of this is a massive distraction from the simple fact that inequality has let rip over the past 45 years alongside precarity hiking up, and they have calculated that they can no longer forward their agenda based around neoliberal financialised globalisation which was on the march until 2008.
 


Algernon

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
3,259
Newmarket.
One thing is for certain.
Those who are responsible for the grooming and rapes are laughing at the inept uselessness of our politicians and government.
They will surely be delighted with this mess of a fukcing soft touch country.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Maybe I’m missing something but seems curious that Nigel Farage didn’t turn up for the House of Commons debate on grooming gangs yesterday. Similarly Tice, who found time to go on LBC.

Just as Farage, so concerned about English fishermen, could only bring himself to attend 1/43 Fisheries Committee meetings whilst he was an MEP. All mouth and shitty mustard-colored trousers
Farage was packing for his 5 day trip to the States (again).
 




Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,268
On NSC for over two decades...
Jenrick said in that interview that cultures are not equal. This means he views cultures within a hierarchy, which is another way of saying that he is a racist.

You seem to be suggesting that a culture can only be associated with a race? I don't think that is true at all, as lots of things have cultures that aren't bound to any race - religious culture, football culture, national culture, corporate culture - you could go on and on.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,268
On NSC for over two decades...
What I think would be useful would be to not subsidize and encourage separatism within the UK.
For example, I don't see it as a virtue to provide translations and interpreters to cater for foreign language speakers at taxpayer expense.
Those who chose to live in the UK must learn the language or pay for their own interpreters.

I agree with all that, a willingness to embrace the things that attracted you to the country you are moving to are essential to successful integration, and being made welcome.
 




HalfaSeatOn

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2014
2,145
North West Sussex
This is the bit i struggle with. The right wing views on stuff are so similar to Islamist.

Homosexuality, corporal punishment, capital punishment, role of women etc. so many views of the Islamists chime with the reform views of the “good old days”
I try and simplify it (and it’s not simple) by thinking whether people are talking about capitalism ( the economy) or culture (identity etc) and align it to whether they are leaning towards social liberal democracy (mixed economy, free speech, toleration etc), neo liberalism (economy free market focused), authoritarianism (democracy gets in their way) and conservative nationalism (culture, a hark back to the ‘good old days) or a mix of. For completeness, socialism (where capitalism is a no no)
 








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