[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Herr Tubthumper]

You’re welcome. Some of the coverage reminds me of the film Sully about the pilot who landed a plane on the Hudson in an emergency.

The film is about how crash investigators set about “proving” pilot error by making decisions based on current knowledge rather than acting on the information available at the time. They proved that he did not have to land on the river as he could have got to an airport. The bloke was sent to trial about it. Eventually people proved that the only way he could have made it to the airport to land more safely were if he had reacted immediately and done that. This would have not given him time to do all the checks he was supposed to do as part of the safety protocol so if he had got to the other airport he would have done the wrong thing based on what was known at the time. Great film.

I havn’t seen the film but I read about this. Am I correct in thinking the plane insurance company was behind this as they wanted to avoid paying out?

 

[loz]

Johnson thought it was staffing money against the wall

A reminder: in 2019 Boris Johnson said… “One comment I would make is I think an awful lot of money – and an awful lot of police time – now goes into these historic offences and all this malarkey, you know, £60million I saw was being spaffed up the wall on some investigation into historic child abuse and all this kind of thing.” Populist politicians and media change their opinions to whatever they think will provide them the most clicks, likes, money or influence on that particular day.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wow! That's a helluva misrepresentation of Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips; I am genuinely curious to discover what source/s you have referred to in making such a judgement...

Starmer was DPP.
He was not PM when all that shit happened.
Blaming him is like blaming Bloom for Billy Painter.

And let us not forget the inquiry was published in 2022.
But Johnson, Truss and Sunk ignored the recommendations.
Too busy with their cock/ego/money.

Then we have the international Troll, Musk stirring shit for giggles.
And frog faced Farage piles in.
And Musk calls Farage useless.
It's rohypnol panto time.

Credit to the Tories (so far, and largely) for not weaponizing the bollocks
(Badenough may well pile in soon though, when she has had a thicky revelation.)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Starmer was DPP.
He was not PM when all that shit happened.
Blaming him is like blaming Bloom for Billy Painter.

And let us not forget the inquiry was published in 2022.
But Johnson, Truss and Sunk ignored the recommendations.
Too busy with their cock/ego/money.

Then we have the international Troll, Musk stirring shit for giggles.
And frog faced Farage piles in.
And Musk calls Farage useless.
It's rohypnol panto time.

Credit to the Tories (so far, and largely) for not weaponizing the bollocks
(Badenough may well pile in soon though, when she has had a thicky revelation.)

Jenrick has.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

one could find claims of the Overton window going relentlessly left, i recall a very good example based on US politics. yet in the actual count, when it matters there's a few % in it. probably more accurate to say the Overton window has become wider, issue on either side considered radical generally are acceptable to more on the opposite side. that is the legacy of social media in all its forms, previously fringe, nutcase, offensive views are aired to a wide audience.

I respectfully disagree. The Labour Party of the 20th Century was far more left wing: nationalisation, tax and spend, redistribution of wealth, cradle to grave welfare state. What's more, people voted for these overtly socialist policies. Labour today has far more in common with centrist Conservatives. Moreover, if the Overton window has moved left, where is the far left equivalent of Farage and Reform?

 

[BadFish]

I respectfully disagree. The Labour Party of the 20th Century was far more left wing: nationalisation, tax and spend, redistribution of wealth, cradle to grave welfare state. What's more, people voted for these overtly socialist policies. Labour today has far more in common with centrist Conservatives. Moreover, if the Overton window has moved left, where is the far left equivalent of Farage and Reform?

For me, one of the rights greatest successes is convincing people that 'the left' are all powerful and f***ing everything up.

How anyone believes that I don't know.

 

[Berty23]

For me, one of the rights greatest successes is convincing people that 'the left' are all powerful and f***ing everything up.

How anyone believes that I don't know.

It is nuts. In my life I have spent 32 years of it with a Tory prime minister and 13.5 years with a Labour one.

Blair must have REALLY messed everything up in those years of rapid growth to have caused all this carnage. It is remarkable what people lap up isn’t it?

 

[BadFish]

It is nuts. In my life I have spent 32 years of it with a Tory prime minister and 13.5 years with a Labour one.

Blair must have REALLY messed everything up in those years of rapid growth to have caused all this carnage. It is remarkable what people lap up isn’t it?

I would argue that the Blair government wasn't even terribly 'left'.

But I take your point, it's nuts.

 

[clapham_gull]

The cases in Telford and Bristol were not under such restrictions from the judge but the media chose a near blackout anyway.

No they didn't. It takes a few seconds to find the reports.

What is your agenda ?

 

[BadFish]

No they didn't. It takes a few seconds to find the reports.

What is your agenda ?

You can't be suggesting Elon, Tommy and Nigel are lying to us, surely??

 

[Curious Orange]

Jenrick has.

Jenrick is a populist opportunist, but I think that person was wrong to describe his tweet as a racist diatribe (presumably because he mentioned Pakistani men). It was just blatant click bait.

Mass legal immigration, the introduction of cultural diversity (and geographic division of those cultures) within our society, the consequences of those things, and how they inform what we actually want as a nation, are worthy of level headed discussion, and should not be used as an opportunity for cheap political point scoring.

 

[beorhthelm]

I respectfully disagree. The Labour Party of the 20th Century was far more left wing: nationalisation, tax and spend, redistribution of wealth, cradle to grave welfare state. What's more, people voted for these overtly socialist policies. Labour today has far more in common with centrist Conservatives. Moreover, if the Overton window has moved left, where is the far left equivalent of Farage and Reform?

some might say the previous Conservative economic policy was quite far left, high spending, high taxing, to say it's centrist illustrates the changing Overton window. and there's social policy views. much in the eye of the beholder, point was the window widening.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

some might say the previous Conservative economic policy was quite far left, high spending, high taxing, to say it's centrist illustrates the changing Overton window. and there's social policy views. much in the eye of the beholder, point was the window widening.

Although it is true that 'some may say... ', they would be utterly wrong and clearly not understanding what is meant by left and right when it comes to economic policy.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Johnson thought it was staffing money against the wall

A reminder: in 2019 Boris Johnson said… “One comment I would make is I think an awful lot of money – and an awful lot of police time – now goes into these historic offences and all this malarkey, you know, £60million I saw was being spaffed up the wall on some investigation into historic child abuse and all this kind of thing.” Populist politicians and media change their opinions to whatever they think will provide them the most clicks, likes, money or influence on that particular day.

Let us also not forget that Johnson was and is an absolute piece of self-centred, self-interested shit, though.

I would like to think the tories have moved on from that sort of leadership.

 

[Boroseagull]

The Times today reviews their reporter, Andrew Norfolk, who exposed the 'cover up' of 2011 by local authorities, social services, police etc. In the comments that follow the article is this one from one of the abused girls, and I post it here;

Theresa
7 hours ago

As someone who was a genuine victim of what has happened here, what angers me most is not the abuse, but the cover up then and now, the lack of acknowledgement or interest in the true depravity of what went on - all for sake of community relations. Cultures differ and the ignorance of many will consign the UK to a cess pit in the not so distant future. I know for I am a victim of it.
Reply

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[jcdenton08]

Although it is true that 'some may say... ', they would be utterly wrong and clearly not understanding what is meant by left and right when it comes to economic policy.

The definition of left and right is very muddied between things like economic policy and big/small government - and the traditional meaning of right/left wing - and the more modern shorthand for social liberalism/conservatism.

Lots of people will be quite right wing in how they view government and tax, but very liberal in social views - and vice versa.

It can be very confusing for some people if one minute a person is saying “I bloody hate this more socialist policy because of X”, so keyboard warriors are pounding their keyboards furiously with Gammony Brexit labels, then in the next sentence that person is saying something entirely socially liberal. It confuses people of both sides who want to say “right/left wing man bad” when you’re both or neither depending on the specific situation.

Everything is so black and white to most people and any nuance is long, long gone from discourse. IMHO.

 

[Seasider78]

Jenrick being handed his arse on a plate by Nick Robinson this morning the vile opportunist twat

https://x.com/haggis_uk/status/1876554620870484446?s=46

 

[beorhthelm]

Although it is true that 'some may say... ', they would be utterly wrong and clearly not understanding what is meant by left and right when it comes to economic policy.

so the views of neoliberals, or the old thatcherites, that dont like Conservatve economics of the past 15 years are simply wrong and dismissed out of hand? great insight, thanks.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Jenrick is a populist opportunist, but I think that person was wrong to describe his tweet as a racist diatribe (presumably because he mentioned Pakistani men). It was just blatant click bait.

Mass legal immigration, the introduction of cultural diversity (and geographic division of those cultures) within our society, the consequences of those things, and how they inform what we actually want as a nation, are worthy of level headed discussion, and should not be used as an opportunity for cheap political point scoring.

I think it is 70 years too late for that sort of discussion.
Mass immigration began in the 50s to provide nightshift workers in the mills, bus drivers and such like.
We have to live with the consequences.
Them are us now.

What I think would be useful would be to not subsidize and encourage separatism within the UK.
For example, I don't see it as a virtue to provide translations and interpreters to cater for foreign language speakers at taxpayer expense.
Those who chose to live in the UK must learn the language or pay for their own interpreters.

On a minor level, I don't think the promotion of religion should be permitted at schools and universities.
At my uni, in recent months I have seen tables and displays set up outside a main entrance celebrating some sort of Muslim thing.
There was one table set up on the left of the entrance and one on the right.
One for women and one for men.

I can just imagine what the reaction would have been had some Jewish students set up an equivalent display.

And it gets on my tits when certain footballers thank god for her blessing when interviewed after a match.
And I would extend that to the Muslim goalscoreres like Salah who bow to Mecca.

Unfortunately nothing will change because of the vested interests of Christians who want their religion to be visible and part of British Life, and 'toleration' of other faiths is seen as part of the bargain.

At the end of the day, however, I can't get very exercised by any of this.
We seem to have assimilated diversity quite well.
I don't feel threatened.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

The definition of left and right is very muddied between things like economic policy and big/small government - and the traditional meaning of right/left wing - and the more modern shorthand for social liberalism/conservatism.

Lots of people will be quite right wing in how they view government and tax, but very liberal in social views - and vice versa.

It can be very confusing for some people if one minute a person is saying “I bloody hate this more socialist policy because of X”, so keyboard warriors are pounding their keyboards furiously with Gammony Brexit labels, then in the next sentence that person is saying something entirely socially liberal. It confuses people of both sides who want to say “right/left wing man bad” when you’re both or neither depending on the specific situation.

Everything is so black and white to most people and any nuance is long, long gone from discourse. IMHO.

Personally, when it comes to social attitudes I prefer to think in terms of liberal/authoritarian. For example, I don't think that one's opinion on same sex marriage or drug legalisation can be defined by right/left. To me these traditional labels only really pertain to economic and political power, and how these are distributed. Ultimately, I think the problem is that labels (like facts) are fast becoming meaningless which makes it very hard to discuss anything.