[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[London Irish]

This ignores the huge impact of the two party system and our method of electing MP's

I think that a more right leaning "Blairite" Labour right has more chance of winning power than a left leaning one.

Somewhere in the middle could be a dream ticket. Centrist economic policy combined with strongly left social policy. Blair's first government probably did achieve this. However the next prospective Labour PM can expect a brexit induced empty exchequer

But you have to explain how all the Blairite candidates crashed and burnt in the General Election we just had last Thursday. If there was any appetite among the British public for those politics, why didn't they do better? Chuka? Berger? Swinson?

The only influence Blairities had in recent times was whipping up a big campaign to get Labour to go for a second referendum, which alas Corbyn was bullied and blackmailed into caving in to (because he's actually a very consensual politician). This proved a total disaster for Labour. Blairism offers nothing ecomically to those voters in left-behind Britain

 

[London Irish]

Oh well, you carry on then - as I say 10 more years in the wilderness, become a protest party, who would I think actually prefer to be in opposition, making a noise, shouting loudly from the sidelines, but not actually wanting to take responsibility.

Of course those MPs lost their deposits, I haven't checked but I expect Greive and Soubury did too. The Tories and Labour will always hoover up the votes of centrist independents - you seem to fail to grasp the fact that the UK doesn't want a 'hard - left' Govt.but will accept a centre/left Govt.

Elect RLB (McDonnell seems very keen so it's bound to happen) and continue to let the likes of Jon Lansmann running the party with Owen Jones and Ash Sakar as the mouthpieces.

No logic to that, if Britain wanted a centrist government, the Lib Dems wouldn't be crushed every time. No one is interested because they know a wet version of Toryism won't change a single thing about their lives

 

[Bulldog]

Wes streeting and Lisa Nandy for me, (this may change) If it must be all female then and I'm going for the female equivalent of Blair and Prescott, Nandy and Jess Philips.

 

[Bulldog]

I dont really care who becomes the Labour Party Leader as they will never be PM during my lifetime.

Ha Ha, if Labour dont boot the hard left out of the party, I dont think they will be back in power during Ben's lifetime.

 

[London Irish]

Plenty crowing among Tories and closet Tories on this thread, and fair enough we take it on the chin. But Corbyn and his manifesto did get 40% and 12 million votes in 2017, the highest Labour vote since 2001, and put the fear of god into the Establishment that the 30-year drift towards the rich getting ever rich was coming to an end. Labour got ****ed over this time by the Brexit issue swallowing all, on everything else the Tories were on the defensive against popular Labour policies. No one in Labour is quitters, they will be back when we see how much the British public really likes Johnson's lies over a great Brexit deal and funding the NHS. Don't crow for too long lads

 

[Chicken Run]

Plenty crowing among Tories and closet Tories on this thread, and fair enough we take it on the chin. But Corbyn and his manifesto did get 40% and 12 million votes in 2017, the highest Labour vote since 2001, and put the fear of god into the Establishment that the 30-year drift towards the rich getting ever rich was coming to an end. Labour got ****ed over this time by the Brexit issue swallowing all, on everything else the Tories were on the defensive against popular Labour policies. No one in Labour is quitters, they will be back when we see how much the British public really likes Johnson's lies over a great Brexit deal and funding the NHS. Don't crow for too long lads

I’ve been crowing for nearly 10 years [emoji23] fair play to you though.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

No logic to that, if Britain wanted a centrist government, the Lib Dems wouldn't be crushed every time. No one is interested because they know a wet version of Toryism won't change a single thing about their lives

The LibDems lose every time because of:

Our voting system.In so many constituencies it's a wasted vote.
Their lack of resources (Tories have business, Labour have the Unions)
They are seen as weak and wet - scandal wearing, muesli eating 50+ idealists.

I fundamentally disagree with regards to a centrist government - tell me, how many elections did Blair win when compared to Corbyn?

Oh well, you drag the Labour Party to the left and disappear into oblivion.

 

[blue-shifted]

But you have to explain how all the Blairite candidates crashed and burnt in the General Election we just had last Thursday. If there was any appetite among the British public for those politics, why didn't they do better? Chuka? Berger? Swinson?

The only influence Blairities had in recent times was whipping up a big campaign to get Labour to go for a second referendum, which alas Corbyn was bullied and blackmailed into caving in to (because he's actually a very consensual politician). This proved a total disaster for Labour. Blairism offers nothing ecomically to those voters in left-behind Britain

I can explain it in the same way that I can explain why all independent candidates (left, right or centre) get crushed by the two party system. People want to vote for a rose or a torch in the same way they are attracted to all other brands. People are attracted to what they know, even if they don't like it that much, better the devil and all that.

Blairism would offer those in "left behind Britain" a lot more than Boris Johnson will. There's an argument that socialism would offer them even more, but last Thursday categorically proved, we'll never know.

 

[London Irish]

I’ve been crowing for nearly 10 years [emoji23] fair play to you though.

You were't crowing in 2017 when Theresa May burst into tears on election night. You weren't crowing over the last 2 years when we inflicted some of the biggest Parliamentary defeats on a sitting government in British history. But yes you get your day in the sun now

Enjoy it because we ain't giving up and we only have to get lucky once and this unequal country changes forever

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Enjoy it because we ain't giving up and we only have to get lucky once and this unequal country changes forever

Labour has to win over a hundred more seats to get a majority.

Boundary changes plus Voter ID will mean no chance unless it moves to the centre.

 

[London Irish]

The LibDems lose every time because of:

Our voting system.In so many constituencies it's a wasted vote.
Their lack of resources (Tories have business, Labour have the Unions)
They are seen as weak and wet - scandal wearing, muesli eating 50+ idealists.

I fundamentally disagree with regards to a centrist government - tell me, how many elections did Blair win when compared to Corbyn?

Oh well, you drag the Labour Party to the left and disappear into oblivion.

Voting system is a total red herring - they got 26% in 1983 and 20% in 2010 under that system. Their ideas (whatever they are, does anyone know?) just don't break through and nobody cares about them

 

[Simster]

Plenty crowing among Tories and closet Tories on this thread, and fair enough we take it on the chin. But Corbyn and his manifesto did get 40% and 12 million votes in 2017, the highest Labour vote since 2001, and put the fear of god into the Establishment that the 30-year drift towards the rich getting ever rich was coming to an end. Labour got ****ed over this time by the Brexit issue swallowing all, on everything else the Tories were on the defensive against popular Labour policies. No one in Labour is quitters, they will be back when we see how much the British public really likes Johnson's lies over a great Brexit deal and funding the NHS. Don't crow for too long lads

This conveniently ignores the fact that in 2017, Labour did not have anything resembling an anti-Brexit policy. The other key difference I think was that in 2019, they were promising something new every day. After a while, it all sounds pie in the sky and easy meat for Tories to squeal to the ignorant about "the magic money tree" even though the Tories have never provided society anything, unlike Labour. (The NHS, free schooling, public libraries, you name it - these things never happen on a Tory watch)

According to Labour MPs who were deselected along the red wall, like Caroline Flint, on the doorsteps people were saying two things in equal measure - a) we want Brexit and Labour aren't delivering that, and b) I'm sorry I can't vote for your party all the while Jeremy Corbyn is leader.

Let's face it, he's just too left-wing for many, he's got a dubious record with the company he's kept (and that counts for a lot with many patriots it seems), and he simply doesn't present as a statesman.

It's a shame. With the right leader, I genuinely do feel socialism might have had a chance, but Labour do need to do what Alan Johnson said in the aftermath of the recent GE - "Momentum have been disastrous for this party and therefore for the country. I want Momentum GONE".

Spot on, Alan. Spot on.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Starmer will carry on serving in a front bench role even if he doesn't get leader, the broad church will be there if you really believe in it and want to support it.

The Labour Party did split, remember Change UK? Chuka? All their MPs lost their deposits, just as Jo Swinson lost her seat. The idea that the election proved the Labour Right or the Lib Dems are in any way popular with the British public is not credible. Labour are still the only alternative if people get tired of Johnson's constant lying and racism, yes big if but lying and racism could go out of fashion much quicker than everyone thinks

I can agree with you that the election didn't prove that the labour right or libdems are popular, but I will say that me and many many people I know would prefer a liberal centre-left government but lent our votes to the socialist left because, as you say, Labour were the only alternative to Johnson. The fact that the core Labour vote then ****ed off to the Tories and left us holding the can does not go down well with us. Labour will need to show a clear move towards the kind of party we want if they want to keep our votes next time round, or we will vote Libdem / Green even if it looks a lost cause in our constituencies.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You were't crowing in 2017 when Theresa May burst into tears on election night. You weren't crowing over the last 2 years when we inflicted some of the biggest Parliamentary defeats on a sitting government in British history. But yes you get your day in the sun now

Enjoy it because we ain't giving up and we only have to get lucky once and this unequal country changes forever

Absolute nonsense. Unless Labour can re-engage in Scotland there won't be a Labour government again. At least not on their own. I don't see 48 seats being turned over without a Labour promise of IndyRef2 or else it's a coalition. Breaking up the Union will be manna to the Tories who will make that their next big scare story after Brexit. Corbyn has lost so much ground in the north Labour can't focus on Scotland anyway.

 

[Blue3]

But you have to explain how all the Blairite candidates crashed and burnt in the General Election we just had last Thursday. If there was any appetite among the British public for those politics, why didn't they do better? Chuka? Berger? Swinson?

The only influence Blairities had in recent times was whipping up a big campaign to get Labour to go for a second referendum, which alas Corbyn was bullied and blackmailed into caving in to (because he's actually a very consensual politician). This proved a total disaster for Labour. Blairism offers nothing ecomically to those voters in left-behind Britain

As I knocked on doors canvassing in the lead up to last Thursday's vote Jeramy Corbyn was seen as increadably divisive individual on the door step by some but certainly by no means all and although he has been vilified by the Establishment on a daily over the past four years he has remained steadfast in his beliefs while never resulting to the low tactics that the Tories and their establishment friends use.

Neither do I agree with Tony Blair when he says the manifesto was the problem on the contrary on the doorstep people were supporting Labours stance on the NHS, house building and Education but I do think the manifesto was far to broard and as such confusing and as the campain progressed the spending plans developed a life of there of and once that happened then credibility became a doorstop issue.

Finally Brexit while I felt that Labours plan to put the final deal reached with the EU should be put back to the people in a second referendum this was seen by many as none democratic , the Tories and Dominic Cummings played a cleaver game setting traps that were so subtle and nuanced and labour just kept walking into them.

So to sum up in my opinion labour lost the election not because they were to left wing but for four main reasons

1. Jeramy Corbyns low approval ratings
2. Over ambitious manifesto
3. Brexit stance
4. The Tories had Dominic Cummings directing things

 

[Simster]

Voting system is a total red herring - they got 26% in 1983 and 20% in 2010 under that system. Their ideas (whatever they are, does anyone know?) just don't break through and nobody cares about them

This is total rubbish. In fact, you only have to look at this last election to see that in action.

The LibDems were the only party to promise to remain. 48% of people right there, in an election 2 or 3 posts up you just admitted was all about Brexit. Yet people like me ended up voting Labour. Why? I'm no fan of this terrible Labour front bench (nor the Lib Dem leadership if the truth be told) but if my anti-Tory vote had been worth anything where I live, I'd clearly have voted yellow.

People don't vote for the Lib Dems because they don't make a difference. They don't make a difference because of the FPTP system which only benefits 2 party politics. If we suddenly had PR, their vote share would immediately jump several points and further vote share would be dictated by the perception people have of their competence. Really quite obvious, and the only people who wouldn't agree are staunch supporters of the two big parties like you, who only keep their grip on vote share because of the system.

 

[blue-shifted]

Voting system is a total red herring - they got 26% in 1983 and 20% in 2010 under that system. Their ideas (whatever they are, does anyone know?) just don't break through and nobody cares about them

So I live in Hove and on policies would have voted in order Green, Lib Dem, Labour, Monster Raving, Tory

I voted labour.

FPTP creates a glass ceiling. Getting into the mid 20%s is very impressive, but the vast majority of seats were still totally unwinnable for the Lib Dems

 

[Titanic]

You were't crowing in 2017 when Theresa May burst into tears on election night. You weren't crowing over the last 2 years when we inflicted some of the biggest Parliamentary defeats on a sitting government in British history. But yes you get your day in the sun now

Enjoy it because we ain't giving up and we only have to get lucky once and this unequal country changes forever

And how futile those two years have been? It achieved nothing but division and delay.

If it was so great, it makes the decision to support a GE look even more benighted. Thank God Jezza's hubris did us all a favour.

I am more interested in which leadership combo is going to lead to this change of 'luck'?

 

[blue-shifted]

This is total rubbish. In fact, you only have to look at this last election to see that in action.

The LibDems were the only party to promise to remain. 48% of people right there, in an election 2 or 3 posts up you just admitted was all about Brexit. Yet people like me ended up voting Labour. Why? I'm no fan of this terrible Labour front bench (nor the Lib Dem leadership if the truth be told) but if my anti-Tory vote had been worth anything where I live, I'd clearly have voted yellow.

People don't vote for the Lib Dems because they don't make a difference. They don't make a difference because of the FPTP system which only benefits 2 party politics. If we suddenly had PR, their vote share would immediately jump several points and further vote share would be dictated by the perception people have of their competence. Really quite obvious, and the only people who wouldn't agree are staunch supporters of the two big parties like you, who only keep their grip on vote share because of the system.

Even more importantly that this, their vote share would go up because the perception would exist that they could win, or at least win enough seats to stop the Tories

 

[Simster]

Even more importantly that this, their vote share would go up because the perception would exist that they could win, or at least win enough seats to stop the Tories

That is why I said "it would immediately jump several points". Any gravy on top of that hike in popularity would depend on their perceived competence.

With Jo Swinson at the helm, that gravy would be negligible - she was as feeble as all the other leaders (except Sturgeon).