New teachers in huge debt when leaving Uni.

[Wilko]

Glad you are enjoying it, the longer I have been teaching the more I have enjoyed it and become passionate about the profession. Didn't really think that would happen to be honest.

As for lesson plans for every lesson, I'm with you there, it is suprising how long it takes!!

Didn't realise all debts would have been wiped out if you stay in the profession for ten years. Must be a new thing cos I've now paid off my debts.

Yes, it is a new incentive set up by the government in 2002. It is nice to hear that you are still enjoying it, there are a lot of moaners and grumblers in the staffroom who seem to have become very bitter about their time in teaching. I hope I can still be enthusiastic and passionate about it in 20 years time.

 

[elbowpatches]

Anyway fatboy, what proof do you have that the standard of teaching has gone downhill? Recent OfSTED reports have stated that there has been a marked improvement in the quality of teaching. I have worked with failing teachers before and they are usually weedled out.

 

[fatboy]

The problem is Fatboy the government wants 50% of the population to have degrees, so that means more people in education, hence the need for more teachers - they cannot all be top draw !!

As for teaching itself quite often the qualifications you have are not the most important factor - You can have a masters and a PHD but not be able to communicate with people or sympathise with a hormonal 16 yr old girl crying because she thinks she is pregnant !!

Some of the most intelligent people on my PGCE course dropped out because they did not have the 'people skills' to relate to students or the patience/tolerance to deal with noisy, swearing, rude and offensive kids !

I appreciate that teaching is not just about being an expert of the syllabus, but I would rather have a teacher that knew his stuff than one that is sympathetic towards suspected pregnancies! That is, of course, what school social workers etc are for.

I agree with your point about universities. There are too many, and it is too easy to get into university now.

 

[fatboy]

Anyway fatboy, what proof do you have that the standard of teaching has gone downhill? Recent OfSTED reports have stated that there has been a marked improvement in the quality of teaching. I have worked with failing teachers before and they are usually weedled out.

I do not have proof, it is merely my opinion. Some of the teachers at my secondary school (which was actually quite good) were quite frankly diabolical; as were some of them at college. Saying that I did have some fantastic teachers some of whom I still know now.

And the fact that Wilko cannot spell!

 

[Wilko]

I appreciate that teaching is not just about being an expert of the syllabus, but I would rather have a teacher that knew his stuff than one that is sympathetic towards suspected pregnancies! That is, of course, what school social workers etc are for.

I agree with your point about universities. There are too many, and it is too easy to get into university now.

Yeah, when I did my degree I was shocked by the grades some people had obtained in their A levels to get onto the course. In fact, I think it is fair to say that some people got through their degree without buying a book for three years and doing about 2 hours work a week - makes me wonder if degrees will become meaningless in years to come ??

 

[elbowpatches]

Yes, it is a new incentive set up by the government in 2002. It is nice to hear that you are still enjoying it, there are a lot of moaners and grumblers in the staffroom who seem to have become very bitter about their time in teaching. I hope I can still be enthusiastic and passionate about it in 20 years time.

I went into the career to prove to myself that I could finish a whole year of teaching after my BEd degree so I went in quite cynically. I have enjoyed it so much since leaving uni, doesn't stop me moaning about paperwork in the staffroom though!!

The good thing about our school is that we quite often share our successes and that promotes the positive side of the job, what its all about, the teaching not the paperwork.

Word of warning though, the further in your career, the more opportunities there are to be involved in initiatives, go to meetings and get out of the classroom. Only do them if you are keen on the initiatives, because for the more passionate teachers, it is about the teaching.

 

[elbowpatches]

And the fact that Wilko cannot spell!

 

[Wilko]

I do not have proof, it is merely my opinion. Some of the teachers at my secondary school (which was actually quite good) were quite frankly diabolical; as were some of them at college. Saying that I did have some fantastic teachers some of whom I still know now.

And the fact that Wilko cannot spell!

Ha ha - I would like to argue my point but you have Dunced me about 5 times on NSC due to my spelling - oopps. In my defence I do tend to type fast and not really proof read my posts !

As mentioned before, I will spot a flaw in your posts one day ANDREW, I am keeping an eye out

By the way - the author of that eats, shoots and leaves book is doing a talk in Hove in a few weeks at the city book store. I am going, may be quite interesting. Fancy Going ? (I know it is a bit GAY but interesting all the same)

 

[fatboy]

Yeah, when I did my degree I was shocked by the grades some people had obtained in their A levels to get onto the course. In fact, I think it is fair to say that some people got through their degree without buying a book for three years and doing about 2 hours work a week - makes me wonder if degrees will become meaningless in years to come ??

They may do. They may become like A Levels where so many people get given A grades that there is no way of distinguishing between the top students and the rest.

I think it is ridiculous that someone can get into university with poor A Level grades. They could then come out with a good degree which would be valued the same as anyone elses degree. Makes me think I may as well have gone to the pub for two years instead of working hard at college.

I expect universities get funding per student so they have the incentive to accept anyone.

 

[fatboy]

By the way - the author of that eats, shoots and leaves book is doing a talk in Hove in a few weeks at the city book store. I am going, may be quite interesting. Fancy Going ? (I know it is a bit GAY but interesting all the same)

Yes I would love too. I bought that book for Christmus and I still have'nt red it all.

When is itt?

 

[Wilko]

Yes I would love too. I bought that book for Christmus and I still have'nt red it all.

When is itt?

- I think it is Tuesday 20th of this month but I will find out for sure. It is £5 a ticket but you get a free glass of wine - we could take the piss and quaff the lot

 

[fatboy]

I will be there.

I cannot remember who the author is but (s)he can autograph my book.

And to go back to the original statement in this thread - Is a debt of £15,000 any different to any other graduate?

 

[Kneon Light]

Have been a teacher for 10 years and am really enjoying it at the moment (although am constantly pissed off with all the admin). It depends a lot where you teach. I was teaching in Croydon for 5 years and at the end of that was seriously considering leaving teaching.

Anyone who thinks teaching is a cushy job is talking out of their arse.

Biggest problem now is that some of my pupils use NSC so I have to be really careful what I say.

 

[Wilko]

I will be there.

I cannot remember who the author is but (s)he can autograph my book.

And to go back to the original statement in this thread - Is a debt of £15,000 any different to any other graduate?

Lynne Truss !

Agree that all students come away from uni with debt, not just teachers.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

I agree with most of what Wilko and Kuipers Left Hand has to say, teaching is more than just knowing your subject, you have to deal with the personalities of the students themselves. Like managing football teams you have to whether a non-performer needs booting up the backside or an arm around the shoulder. If they know you like them you will get a great deal more out of them.

Yes the holidays are nice but you still work through them, I have 34 pieces of coursework to mark and moderate over Easter, plus planning and other bits of paperwork. Furthermore, you have to stick to these holidays, the football team I've been playing for have recently tried to organise a long weekend break abroad and have ended up shelving it because they don't want to pay extra for going during half term and the two teachers who play cannot get the time off during term.

I became a teacher at 35 having worked in a lot of different jobs beforehand and it is a very different job to others. The school day at my place may be 8.50-3.05 but I'm in at 8.00 and rarely leave before 5.00. All meetings and training take place after school hours and much paperwork and planning happen then too. Our school has just come out of special measures which meant for the past two years we've had inspectors coming in to check that we do actually do all the paperwork and the lessons have been planned properly and to a level they are satisfied with.

My only gripe is that some teachers have never done anything else with their life except be in education and can be woefully misguided in some of their views and become very insular regarding the importance of their job. But then that happens in many other jobs.

 

[Murray 17]

By the way - the author of that eats, shoots and leaves book is doing a talk in Hove in a few weeks at the city book store. I am going, may be quite interesting. Fancy Going ? (I know it is a bit GAY but interesting all the same)

Was not very impressed with some of this book. Did you see the part that said you can use an apostrophe for plurals of abbrieviations? Some of my colleagues use this and it drives me mad!

 

[oapdodge]

Still think you are trying to make a special case for teachers.Most people are put under pressure at work,have to plan ahead,have targets to hit,speak to angry customers,deal with horrible personal problems,life and death subjects.We all have it hard and probably think we should earn more.Be respected more.
I work from 8.00 until 18.30 but I chose my profession, as teachers have.I interview and train lots of the youngsters not long out of school.It would be nice if more of them could spell and add up.We always get the fact that parents don't help the teachers,well excuse me but if I start doing their job when I get home then I would be working from 8.00 until 21.30 or more.Surely if you are paid to teach that is what you should do.
As has been said graduates all run up debts but they end up paying them back.Why should teachers get special treatment ?
Theatre I also have to agree with your views of people within education are very insular and don't seem to understand that a lot goes on outside their proffesion.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Tricky ol' subject and a wide spectrum of views. All anybody can do is sort of lob in random observations IMHO. Such as:

- How come PE teachers are suddenly drafted in to teach Geography, History, Maths etc. to 14 year olds? Are they actually qualified to do so, or are they just patching up the school's budget?

- How come somebody who ponces about doing a Sociology or Media Studies or History Of Art degree gets the same fee scale as somebody who does a less self-indulgent degree which might actually benefit the community as a whole? Maybe degrees should be graded in price according to their value to the community, with Media Studies students paying full whack.

- How come anybody at all goes into 'trainee' teaching via a degree. Surely you'd be over-qualified at the end of it AND 15K in debt. Surely there's a fast-track teaching scheme. I'm sure I've seen some adverts for it - tho maybe it was for trying to lure former teachers back into the profession. One or other.

- How come teachers ALWAYS have such shit taste in music?

 

[Wilko]

If you already have a degree there is a fast track PGCE which you can complete in one year to teach. That is the way I did it

 

[oapdodge]

Sociology ? Is that a real subject ?