[Albion] new away fan ID/ticketing system

[jackalbion]

So, firstly it seems you don't have a problem with carrying ID to get in a night club so not sure why you're worried about it at a football match.

What football special trains are you talking about? I'm not aware of any. We travel to most away games by train, when they're running. They are not football specials, just the normal service. Even the enhanced service from and to Falmer on home games are not 'football specials'. What exactly do you mean by sharing around loyalty points? You are of course right about the future of the club being the younger fans but that doesn't mean they should get special dispensation. As you say, the future is yours so bide your time. The loyalty scheme should work but it's clear it is being abused by a minority so it now needs to be policed.

By sharing them around I mean stop people from hoarding them, there are some football special trains still about (Palace for example) and a load up north for games between teams that share the same network (Preston and Blackburn another example), I know this as I’ve planned a few of them. It is being abused but I think the groups that are being targeted are not necessarily the ones abusing it. I think a night club and a football game are different things, one should have ID as entry is age restricted by law, the other is an all ages football game, which while not at our club, is becoming very highly restricted at the top level, and I think there should be some rights in place. I think this debate has run its course, as people seem to not be getting my point or going off topic, I don’t agree with the ID checks, but the reasoning behind it is sound. I also do not think the club is ALWAYS chasing the corporate pound, I just think sometimes they can be perceived to or maybe have some double standards, I think the people running the club are good people and have a fine balance to manage,

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

By sharing them around I mean stop people from hoarding them, there are some football special trains still about (Palace for example) and a load up north for games between teams that share the same network (Preston and Blackburn another example), I know this as I’ve planned a few of them. It is being abused but I think the groups that are being targeted are not necessarily the ones abusing it. I think a night club and a football game are different things, one should have ID as entry is age restricted by law, the other is an all ages football game, which while not at our club, is becoming very highly restricted at the top level, and I think there should be some rights in place. I think this debate has run its course, as people seem to not be getting my point or going off topic, I don’t agree with the ID checks, but the reasoning behind it is sound. I also do not think the club is ALWAYS chasing the corporate pound, I just think sometimes they can be perceived to or maybe have some double standards, I think the people running the club are good people and have a fine balance to manage,

The ID checks are simply to match the ticket buyer to the ticket. The nightclub example was simply to point out that you do have to show ID at other venues even if for different reasons. At the football it certainly isn’t aimed at younger fans so your implication that it is is way wide if the mark. It is interesting that you dislike corporate fans so much when people sharing around tickets with their mates and accumulating even more loyalty points in the process whilst not attending games actually creates an unofficial clique of its own. We are never going to agree on this but I want the opportunity to watch the Albion and I see the people you are defending as in the way of that wish. No point in having rules if they are not enforced. Put another way if the rules are not going to be enforced then I would prefer a free for all so we all have same chance of missing out, including the people currently getting tickets whenever they wish regardless of game attendance.

 

[drew]

By sharing them around I mean stop people from hoarding them, there are some football special trains still about (Palace for example) and a load up north for games between teams that share the same network (Preston and Blackburn another example), I know this as I’ve planned a few of them. It is being abused but I think the groups that are being targeted are not necessarily the ones abusing it. I think a night club and a football game are different things, one should have ID as entry is age restricted by law, the other is an all ages football game, which while not at our club, is becoming very highly restricted at the top level, and I think there should be some rights in place. I think this debate has run its course, as people seem to not be getting my point or going off topic, I don’t agree with the ID checks, but the reasoning behind it is sound. I also do not think the club is ALWAYS chasing the corporate pound, I just think sometimes they can be perceived to or maybe have some double standards, I think the people running the club are good people and have a fine balance to manage,

Still not clear about the sharing. By hoarding do you mean that it's unfair that those in the top tier can keep getting the tickets? If so, then we're never going to agree. The scheme isn't perfect but it is one of the best scheme's going. You can work your way up the tiers but it isn't going to happen overnight.

As for the specials, we are talking about completely different things and I'm not sure any law was changed! The Seagull Specials were designated trains that left Brighton and went to the away team station. You had to have a ticket for that specific service. Sometimes they would have some first class carriages added for the team to travel. They were effectively a train chartered by the club. The trains you are referring to are just an extra service laid on by the train operators, probably at the request of the clubs/police. I can't comment about the ones in the North but for the return from Palace you certainly don't need a ticket for that specific service.

 

[chaileyjem]

I don’t have to pick up my ticket at Brentford and that is fine, what is stupid is that there is some perception that everyone who doesn’t like this policy hates the club.

.

Agreed. There’s been a range of reactions to these sanctions on here - some very extreme which are out of all proportion to imo a pretty minor change - but to argue you hate the club for merely disagreeing doesn’t make sense. Clearly you don’t Jack and your opposition is sincerely held.

 

[jackalbion]

Still not clear about the sharing. By hoarding do you mean that it's unfair that those in the top tier can keep getting the tickets? If so, then we're never going to agree. The scheme isn't perfect but it is one of the best scheme's going. You can work your way up the tiers but it isn't going to happen overnight.

As for the specials, we are talking about completely different things and I'm not sure any law was changed! The Seagull Specials were designated trains that left Brighton and went to the away team station. You had to have a ticket for that specific service. Sometimes they would have some first class carriages added for the team to travel. They were effectively a train chartered by the club. The trains you are referring to are just an extra service laid on by the train operators, probably at the request of the clubs/police. I can't comment about the ones in the North but for the return from Palace you certainly don't need a ticket for that specific service.

No buying tickets and going to every game is not hoarding, buying tickets and passing them on, so you get the points but not attending the game. Interesting you say about the trains for palace not being chartered, as both clubs have paid for the trains themselves every year in the premier league.

 

[jackalbion]

It is interesting that you dislike corporate fans so much when people sharing around tickets with their mates and accumulating even more loyalty points in the process whilst not attending games actually creates an unofficial clique of its own. We are never going to agree on this but I want the opportunity to watch the Albion and I see the people you are defending as in the way of that wish.

I don’t think I’ve said I dislike, I just believe it’s double standards, I’ve also never defended people sharing tickets around, I said I don’t think it’s a problem for more than like 1 or 2 games a season, in fact multiple times I’ve personally cited you, as an example of people it’s unfair on.

 

[chaileyjem]

I don’t think I’ve said I dislike, I just believe it’s double standards, I’ve also never defended people sharing tickets around, I said I don’t think it’s a problem for more than like 1 or 2 games a season, in fact multiple times I’ve personally cited you, as an example of people it’s unfair on.

PS 1-2 games rely on the loyalty scheme or A+ memberships . ? I think it’s over half…9-10 matches in an average season. Chelsea, Arsenal, Brentford, Saints, Spurs, Palace, West Ham, Fulham, Man Utd, Liverpool - and that depends on how we’re doing. Better results and the midlands ones go well too. And potentially a juicy cup tie or two. But yes. A fair chunk go to general sale and several of these have already happened.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don’t think I’ve said I dislike, I just believe it’s double standards, I’ve also never defended people sharing tickets around, I said I don’t think it’s a problem for more than like 1 or 2 games a season, in fact multiple times I’ve personally cited you, as an example of people it’s unfair on.

It’s not double standards at all, as I have previously said, it’s a different product 1901 members buy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I don’t think I’ve said I dislike, I just believe it’s double standards, I’ve also never defended people sharing tickets around, I said I don’t think it’s a problem for more than like 1 or 2 games a season, in fact multiple times I’ve personally cited you, as an example of people it’s unfair on.

Fair enough and yes I take those points on board.

 

[jackalbion]

PS 1-2 games rely on the loyalty scheme or A+ memberships . ? I think it’s over half…9-10 matches in an average season. Chelsea, Arsenal, Brentford, Saints, Spurs, Palace, West Ham, Fulham, Man Utd, Liverpool - and that depends on how we’re doing. Better results and the midlands ones go well too. And potentially a juicy cup tie or two. But yes. A fair chunk go to general sale and several of these have already happened.

I did forget about Fulham as that was a one off this year due to the stand redevelopment, meaning its reduced and they are enforcing the neutral area very strictly (although it didn't stop a few). But three of those listed have already gone all the way to the point where over 50,000 (estimate) are eligible for a ticket (My Albion +)

 

[jackalbion]

It’s not double standards at all, as I have previously said, it’s a different product 1901 members buy.

Yes but I think the problem they are trying to get rid of (people in lower tiers not getting tickets) is also being caused by this, it doesn't become a loyalty point system, it becomes a who you know issue, I don't think people should jump ahead of someone in a lower point bracket because they have a mate whos 1901, I think to avoid this they should change the T&Cs to not allow passing the ticket on for away games. They have a real issue with season ticket holders passing on tickets, but no issue with 1901 members, because they pay more a season, which I personally don't think is a fair policy, I think with the threat of 10 game bans it just creates a divide between what is wrong and what is right for different groups.

 

[chaileyjem]

I did forget about Fulham as that was a one off this year due to the stand redevelopment, meaning its reduced and they are enforcing the neutral area very strictly (although it didn't stop a few). But three of those listed have already gone all the way to the point where over 50,000 (estimate) are eligible for a ticket (My Albion +)

Agreed. Its only a few that go quickly at Tier 1 or Tier 2. Must still be frustrating if you cough up for the A+ membership (£35 ) to see others jump the queue.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Yes but I think the problem they are trying to get rid of (people in lower tiers not getting tickets) is also being caused by this, it doesn't become a loyalty point system, it becomes a who you know issue, I don't think people should jump ahead of someone in a lower point bracket because they have a mate whos 1901, I think to avoid this they should change the T&Cs to not allow passing the ticket on for away games. They have a real issue with season ticket holders passing on tickets, but no issue with 1901 members, because they pay more a season, which I personally don't think is a fair policy, I think with the threat of 10 game bans it just creates a divide between what is wrong and what is right for different groups.

Until the club publicised the fact within the last week that 1901ers could pass away tickets on to 'guests' I didn't know we could. None of the 1901ers I know knew we could either. We all knew we could for home games of course, but being allowed to for away games came as a real surprise.

Frankly, I'd advocate removing that privilege - though I doubt it's been the source of much of the club's problems about away ticket abuse anyway, since:

1. No bugger knew we could do it
2. 1901ers total c3k people; non-1901 STH = c22k, so the absolute numbers are much smaller

One thing that's puzzled me about some of the conversation on this thread is that I wonder if people are remembering that each STH has the ability to buy only one away ticket each. So if they're in tier 1, they can buy 1 away ticket. That means that if they're passing it on, they themselves are not going to the game. While I'm sure that some are doing that deliberately and on an ongoing basis (and that should be stamped out, imo), surely that can't be that many people? Dunno, maybe it is...?

 

[jackalbion]

Until the club publicised the fact within the last week that 1901ers could pass away tickets on to 'guests' I didn't know we could. None of the 1901ers I know knew we could either. We all knew we could for home games of course, but being allowed to for away games came as a real surprise.

Frankly, I'd advocate removing that privilege - though I doubt it's been the source of much of the club's problems about away ticket abuse anyway, since:

1. No bugger knew we could do it
2. 1901ers total c3k people; non-1901 STH = c22k, so the absolute numbers are much smaller

One thing that's puzzled me about some of the conversation on this thread is that I wonder if people are remembering that each STH has the ability to buy only one away ticket each. So if they're in tier 1, they can buy 1 away ticket. That means that if they're passing it on, they themselves are not going to the game. While I'm sure that some are doing that deliberately and on an ongoing basis (and that should be stamped out, imo), surely that can't be that many people? Dunno, maybe it is...?

I don't think many are doing it deliberately, but I think this season is the most I've seen on social media for tickets being sold on for away games, two of the examples of people I know personally who pass on their tickets on for every single game are in the 1901 club, that's why I think it particularly grates on me. If people want to sell their tickets the fact they've been doing it so blatantly is incredibly stupid (especially in a club administrated twitter space) I do know of people who have passed on their ticket but its very rarely, and is often an on the day or week before thing, as something has come up that means someone can't make it, otherwise the seat would have gone empty. This could just be an experiment with Brentford to see a straw poll for how many offenders. I've also been passed on away tickets for other clubs but have given them back to people when I've found out the away end is sold out and the home end isn't, it happens everywhere, this was Salford v Oldham in the 4th Tier.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't think many are doing it deliberately, but I think this season is the most I've seen on social media for tickets being sold on for away games, two of the examples of people I know personally who pass on their tickets on for every single game are in the 1901 club, that's why I think it particularly grates on me. If people want to sell their tickets the fact they've been doing it so blatantly is incredibly stupid (especially in a club administrated twitter space) I do know of people who have passed on their ticket but its very rarely, and is often an on the day or week before thing, as something has come up that means someone can't make it, otherwise the seat would have gone empty. This could just be an experiment with Brentford to see a straw poll for how many offenders. I've also been passed on away tickets for other clubs but have given them back to people when I've found out the away end is sold out and the home end isn't, it happens everywhere, this was Salford v Oldham in the 4th Tier.

My post was a response to your comment about double-standards. On that I don’t agree, it’s the T&Cs of a different product. As I understand it, the away ticket transfer is to facilitate 1901ers who have multiple tickets in their name and/or in a company name. I first became aware of this at the time of the FA Cup semifinal and also Palace away games e.g. if you have 4 tickets in a company name what gives when it comes to buying away tickets which need a person’s name? If you have 4 tickets in your actual name and bring different people every home game what gives when you want to use these to buy away tickets? Im not necessarily saying I agree with this, just trying to explain my understanding.

Where I do agree with you is this benefit should not be used to sell away tickets in the manner you describe. That’s wrong and an abuse of the system.

 

[Giraffe]

Yes but I think the problem they are trying to get rid of (people in lower tiers not getting tickets) is also being caused by this, it doesn't become a loyalty point system, it becomes a who you know issue, I don't think people should jump ahead of someone in a lower point bracket because they have a mate whos 1901, I think to avoid this they should change the T&Cs to not allow passing the ticket on for away games. They have a real issue with season ticket holders passing on tickets, but no issue with 1901 members, because they pay more a season, which I personally don't think is a fair policy, I think with the threat of 10 game bans it just creates a divide between what is wrong and what is right for different groups.

Worth highlighting that they are currently in the second season of a new five year term. They therefore cannot change the terms and conditions for another 3 seasons.

I agree with you though it's probably a bigger problem than the one they are trying to crack though, but to be fair to 1901 members it is the only benefit left to them now from what was originally sold. (said as a previous 1901 er who had enough and got out).

 

[Beanstalk]

My post was a response to your comment about double-standards. On that I don’t agree, it’s the T&Cs of a different product. As I understand it, the away ticket transfer is to facilitate 1901ers who have multiple tickets in their name and/or in a company name. I first became aware of this at the time of the FA Cup semifinal and also Palace away games e.g. if you have 4 tickets in a company name what gives when it comes to buying away tickets which need a person’s name? If you have 4 tickets in your actual name and bring different people every home game what gives when you want to use these to buy away tickets? Im not necessarily saying I agree with this, just trying to explain my understanding.

Where I do agree with you is this benefit should not be used to sell away tickets in the manner you describe. That’s wrong and an abuse of the system.

Would it not make logistical sense for the four 1901 seats to be assigned to four Fan IDs for away fixtures? So whilst the home tickets are owned by the company/single owner, the loyalty points are earned by individuals who can use their points to buy away tickets along with everyone else? A five year term would mean that those four tickets would likely be in a higher band anyway.

 

[Beanstalk]

I don't think many are doing it deliberately, but I think this season is the most I've seen on social media for tickets being sold on for away games, two of the examples of people I know personally who pass on their tickets on for every single game are in the 1901 club, that's why I think it particularly grates on me. If people want to sell their tickets the fact they've been doing it so blatantly is incredibly stupid (especially in a club administrated twitter space) I do know of people who have passed on their ticket but its very rarely, and is often an on the day or week before thing, as something has come up that means someone can't make it, otherwise the seat would have gone empty. This could just be an experiment with Brentford to see a straw poll for how many offenders. I've also been passed on away tickets for other clubs but have given them back to people when I've found out the away end is sold out and the home end isn't, it happens everywhere, this was Salford v Oldham in the 4th Tier.

Agree re: this season and last being annoyingly blatant. Very noticeable particularly at Norwich last season at how many tickets were being passed around with groups piling in and taking over sections with tickets across the stand (kicked off with both a steward and another fan who called them out where I was).

It's also really noticeable that for the more attractive away fixtures, the demand completely outstrips the supply. I went to over 75% of matches last season, have been a season ticket holder attending multiple away games since the AMEX opened and was only in tier 1 for Brentford by a point. If that is the cut-off for the top 2,000 then that's an extremely high bar. It just isn't fair to then have a loyalty points system that is abused - it stops those who do adhere to the system from having any chance of building up loyalty points themselves.

 

[Originunknown]

Has anyone asked supporter services if names can be reassigned on bought tickets if those people can no longer attend but another eligible fan no. will take the ticket?

 

[drew]

No buying tickets and going to every game is not hoarding, buying tickets and passing them on, so you get the points but not attending the game. Interesting you say about the trains for palace not being chartered, as both clubs have paid for the trains themselves every year in the premier league.

Ok, I think we agree on the first point although I believe the phrase used is normally 'harvesting' points. Club first became aware of it at the Bournemouth league cup game in 2017 when many bought the cheap tickets but didn't go just to get the points.

As for the trains, I'll take your word for it that Brighton/Palace paid for those extra services but you'll have to take my word for it that they are a completely different kettle of fish to the old chartered trains the club arranged during the late 70s and early 80s.